D'Artagnan01: Low-level Training Day

[Bahzell]

Just give him some time Tribute, I'm sure he'll oblige you.

Nicely done CommandoBob.

Now I'll say this again for us idiots:

More Pictures Please

 

[Bede]

Sorta in the middle, I think.
Everyone has Monarchy. rolleyes
Egypt and Vikings have Construction; England and Iroquois do not.
We have Currency and Literature; England and Iroquois do not.

Egypt is currently in anarchy, everyone else is in Republic.

I did not establish embassies with our Cleo or Ragnar.

Ahead: Egypt and Scandanavia (Construction)
Middle: France
Behind: England and Iroquois (Construction, Currency and Literature)

Which as Commando Bob has discovered is exactly where we want to be. This is an excellent position to be in as we enter the Middle Ages. We are up two very expensive techs on our near neighbors and own the contact rights to two just a little advanced ones.

My take on the trading potential: Go ahead and buy Construction as long as we don't spend any cash flow for it. That will let us see into the other guys' technology larder and plan the next technology move. Then sell Construction to Lizzie, wait for Hiawatha to get some money in his jeans and sell him Currency, or trade him Currency for Monarchy, just in case we meet someone else across the ocean blue who doesn't know Monarchy.

Or you could take all the money from Liz for Literature but you lose its early MA bargaining power.

Tribute's notion of whoring our way across the MA is looking better and better (There, Trib, I just sent some your way)

Don't get too hung up on the CAII forecasts of the economy. There are still a few holes in the corruption calculations IIRC and the impact of Republic and the FP on a Commercial nation will be huge for the increase in commerce and rhe reduction in corruption.

 

[Tribute]

Whale hunting is called 'whoring', right? The word just makes me feel squeamish. Maybe because of its other possible meaning....

And BTW, I may very well be wrong, but didn't Chuchui Husky leave?

 

[Bucephalus]

Hey guys,
let me run this one past you: if we leave Warrior 'Yellow' where he is, then he will get orders to leave. Am I right in thinking that since he is so far from home, he will automatically be whisked to the nearest neutral square? And might not that square be next to another civ, maybe even on a third continent?

Is this a good idea, or will the 'irascible one' get his tonsure in a twist?

 

[Bucephalus]

And BTW, I may very well be wrong, but didn't Chuchui Husky leave?

Well, last time he was up he posted to say that he wasn't able to play, but it is unclear whether he meant just that turn or not.

 

[Tribute]

A cunning plan indeed. However, it may be troublesome if there are some inaccessible one tile islands around there. At any rate, just try to get as far as possible from our land by border jumping (switching back and forth between the AI territory border. Then, we wait in the farthest from a neutral tile in our land and hope for the best.

 

[CommandoBob]

A cunning plan indeed.

An exploitive as well.

Which was not banned in this game. At least, I find no discussion of it in the first four pages of this thread. This exploit is banned in GOTMs though.

@D'Artagnan59: is this tactic okay with you?

@Bede: exploitive or not, is this tactic really any good?

 

[Bucephalus]

This exploit is banned in GOTMs though

I see no mention of it in the GOTM rules.

 

[Tribute]

Actually, regardless of the rules, it is an exploit. It is unnatural and takes advantage of the AI's booting system. Has anyone in real life during such olden times been booted out of someone's land, shipped over to a different continent and dropped off? Now that I think about it, we are kind of being unfair to the AI in our game. How will THEY feel when they lose? They'll point at us and say we cheated, and they would be right, in a way.

 

[CommandoBob]

I see no mention of it in the GOTM rules.

You're right; I was wrong.

Now I'm puzzled. I know I saw that listed as an exploit somewhere and I thought it was with GOTMs. And I don't have time to track it down right now.

Good job, Bucephalus.

 

[Bucephalus]

Actually, regardless of the rules, it is an exploit. It is unnatural and takes advantage of the AI's booting system. Has anyone in real life during such olden times been booted out of someone's land, shipped over to a different continent and dropped off? Now that I think about it, we are kind of being unfair to the AI in our game. How will THEY feel when they lose? They'll point at us and say we cheated, and they would be right, in a way.

Actually, I would argue that it is less of an exploit than the 'suicide-galley'; if an AI civ dropped-off a unit on our land, presumably they would have the same chance of relocation upon getting the 'boot' as we do. Sending out a 'suicide-galley', on the other hand, is seeking to gain an advantage in a way that the AI never can; and we all do it, don't we?

 

[Ansar]

I dont consider it an exploit given the fact that it is very small chance of sending you to another continent. The nearest neutral tile is closer than another landmass, IIRC. But thats just my thoughts. Worth a shot, I guess, since we arent losing anything.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

HOLY VACHE (cow)! Littler France is awesome for cities!

Pop them down fast!

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Hey guys,
let me run this one past you: if we leave Warrior 'Yellow' where he is, then he will get orders to leave. Am I right in thinking that since he is so far from home, he will automatically be whisked to the nearest neutral square? And might not that square be next to another civ, maybe even on a third continent?

Is this a good idea, or will the 'irascible one' get his tonsure in a twist?

A cunning plan indeed. However, it may be troublesome if there are some inaccessible one tile islands around there. At any rate, just try to get as far as possible from our land by border jumping (switching back and forth between the AI territory border. Then, we wait in the farthest from a neutral tile in our land and hope for the best.

An exploitive as well.

Which was not banned in this game. At least, I find no discussion of it in the first four pages of this thread. This exploit is banned in GOTMs though.

@D'Artagnan59: is this tactic okay with you?

@Bede: exploitive or not, is this tactic really any good?

OK with moi.

 

[Tribute]

Actually, I would argue that it is less of an exploit than the 'suicide-galley'; if an AI civ dropped-off a unit on our land, presumably they would have the same chance of relocation upon getting the 'boot' as we do. Sending out a 'suicide-galley', on the other hand, is seeking to gain an advantage in a way that the AI never can; and we all do it, don't we?

But a lot of people have done this in real life. The AI just ... don't. Like Columbus. They thought he was all loony and that there was no land in the west. He just guessed. And there it was. And then the next few boats all sank on the way. So it does happen. But really, I don't care about using it. It, frankly, sounds REALLY interesting to use.

Okay, so the AI knows where everything is like resources and islands. It is unfair, but we can't change that. Just because THEY don't feel the need to do everything they can to win, doesn't mean we should abuse our advantage of it. However, this is very small in badness compared to making a water and mountain filled map with only one tile to settle on (that you get) on Sid level. And no, I haven't done that. Of course.

 

[Bede]

I can think of only one instance in my games when a wandering warrior got "teleported", or so we thought, but it turned out to be only around a hidden neck of land. So that sort of thing is not something I've spent any time at all considering for value or as an exploit.

But then I never load troops into suicide galleys, either, but that is generally because I usually have better uses for them elsewhere (cannon fodder or building piers, either one)

Why not just sign an RoP and wander freely? Doing that gives way more information than a random teleport ever will.

So, the ruling is: enh!, Who cares?

And suicide galleys are a long and honored tradition, and are another means of compensating for the AI discounts and bonuses when you you play past Monarch. So I certainly don't consider it an exploit.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about what really constitutes an exploit anyway. Some define it as a tactic the AI does not use, and that is just plain wrong. A better definition might be: any sequence of moves that takes advantage of the game's design loopholes.

The "Palace Jump" exploit is an example. The corruption model in the original Civ3 was cleverly designed, but it had a loophole you could drive a Mack truck through, and it wasn't very long before the clever deconstructionists in this community (and others) built the map that made it possible.

Interestingly enough corruption was made a part of the game to hamper the AI , not the human. I once played a game where the corruption level was edited to reduce corruption significantly and a team of Deity skilled players was almost swamped by the AI in an Emperor game that played like SID. They expanded like crazy and the combination of Emperor production discounts and low corruption was a terrible thing to experience.

 

[Bucephalus]

OK, before I run with this I need some clarification on Tech research. As I understand it, it is proposed that we run zero research. Do we have a consensus on this, or have I totally misunderstood the discussion?

 

[Bucephalus]

Man, it is really frustrating being in a different time zone.

I've opened up the save, and a couple of things spring out at me:

1) Lizzie has this offer to make:

2) It seems that Ragnor has Feudalism:

Don't panic, I'm not going to make any moves until at least some of you get on-line with some feedback.

 

[Ansar]

I still am not convinced about trading Lit... but thats just my opinion.

What tells you Ragnar has feudalism?

 

[Bucephalus]

I still am not convinced about trading Lit... but thats just my opinion.

My concern is that Geronimo might demand it soon (compared to them our military is weak, and he is only 'cautious'), and then of course it will be practically worthless. I say strike while the Iron is hot.

What tells you Ragnar has feudalism?

Look at the advisor.