D'Artagnan01: Low-level Training Day

[Bucephalus]

@CB: I might be wrong but I think his remark was aimed at D'artagnon.

 

[CommandoBob]

@CB: I might be wrong but I think his remark was aimed at D'artagnon.

That's OK. I wasn't offended; just explaining.

(And it does take me a while to play my turns. Makes me want to change my name to CommandoBobTheSlowPoke. )

 

[Tribute]

Oh, no. I did mean you, CommandoBob. (Note that this remark is not sarcastic.)

I've nothing wrong with planning things out. I just can't stand doing it sometimes though. Too bad.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Me was hazy.

 

[Tribute]

You were hazed?! How does that work?

Or did you mean unfocused?

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Unfocused. It was about 10:45 when I played and was VERY tired. Went to bed and extremely tired, fell asleep IMMEDIATELY.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Will someone get their butt over here and

GET CIVVING!

666th Post!

 

[D'Artagnan59]

The Vikings broke their MA with us vs. America and made peace in 730 AD, with several turns left on the deal. America wants techs for peace and so does Egypt.

I don't think Ragnar is a true friend to France.

We have no current deals with Ragnar (IIRC), so maybe we should allay with America and Egypt against the Vikings. He (Ragnar) has his UU so I am sure his Golden Age has come and gone. America has two saltpeter, Vikings only one. We might be able to get saltpeter in an MA deal or tech swap. If the peace between Abe and Ragnar was just peace + tech for peace + tech (no gold involved) we might be able to get a new war started overseas.

After Newtons
I see us somewhat treading water until we build Newton's University. We don't want to do any tech trades until that Wonder is ours and ours alone. That happens in just a few turns, about halfway into the next turnset.

I think we need to kick around what wheeling and dealing we want to do at that point.

Commando, why did you say that stuff when I was following your suggestion?

 

[CommandoBob]

Commando, why did you say that stuff when I was following your suggestion?

Touche! I had actually forgotten that I had written that before the turns.

I had posted my thoughts back in Post #646, but those points had not been really talked about in the several days before you played your turns. I wasn't sure that what I had written was the best way to proceed; I saw it as one way of many to proceed. True, Tribute seemed to endorse what I said, but I took his 'We could do that.' as meaning, 'We could do that, but we could do better, too.'

Even though they were my ideas, I did not see them as being what our plan had to be. I saw them as discussion points on what we could do, not what we should do.

I did not consider the ideas discussed enough to act on. In a solo game I would have acted on them, because if they were bad ideas I only hurt myself. In an SG, I would have hurt the team, and I did enough of that on my first turnset.

Had it been my turns to play, I would have posted my thoughts and gotten feeback from the team before proceeding. That does slow the game down, but no one is surprised by what is done in the turns, since it has been talked about before the turns are played.

Now, did I communicate all of that? No. Can you be held accountable for my lack of clarity? No. Was any long term harm done? Probably not.

So what did happen? It looks like you liked my ideas and tried to put them into action, but did not include that fact (you were acting from a something suggested in a previous post) in the turn log. In the meantime, I think we all had forgotten about that post and did not remember it when we read the turn log. And by not saying that you got your ideas from an earlier post, you appeared to violate your own rule #1.

The questions I did ask are the kinds of things that might have been covered in a pre-flight discussion of the turns. Is peace with America worth a tech? How do we want to go about getting Abe and Ragnar to start fighting again? Do we want to MA with either one of them to get a war going?

My comments on rash decisions was to show that I was not talking down to you. Rather, it was to show that I have been guilty of the same thing before.

Overall, just another case of lack of communication.

But, we will improve.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Buchephalus or whoever's up:

GET CIVVING NOW!

That isn't me. But don't make me angry.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

I'm stuck until Thursday, too.

That was taken from Sana-06: Demigod Luddites, where I strategize for them.
He is participating, and he was up. Go see it for yourself.

So the roster:

Me- Just played
Trib- Up
Commando- On Deck
Buceph- Out til Thur. 3rd if CB posts after Thursday.

Out indefinitely:

Ansar and TGOM

MIA:

Chukchi and conquerdude.

 

[Tribute]

But, but, but I just played and updated the Fiery French. I must catch up on other things, so please do not expect much for a little while.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

OK. No GET CIVVING message.

 

[Bucephalus]

That was taken from Sana-06: Demigod Luddites, where I strategize for them.
He is participating, and he was up. Go see it for yourself.

So the roster:

Me- Just played
Trib- Up
Commando- On Deck
Buceph- Out til Thur. 3rd if CB posts after Thursday.

Out indefinitely:

Ansar and TGOM

MIA:

Chukchi and conquerdude.

Since this is supposed to be a training game, I figured that the team would want to discuss the next moves, instead of me rashly going ahead and doing my own thing; Sana_06 has a stricter 'got it, play' policy. That is why I didn't ask for a skip - if we do this properly, there would be little likelihood of it being played before Thursday.
We would need to answer questions like, "What do we research after 'Steam'?"; "What if we have no coal?"; "should we gift Korea in to the IA's?",
and, "why are we building regular pikemen in six of our cities?"

 

[D'Artagnan59]

I say we research Industrialization for factories. Hopefully, we have Coal.

About the Viking war:

I say that we lay back and let the others do the dirty work.

OK?

 

[Tribute]

Actually, factories require only iron. But yes, I do hope for coal. I'll try to end the silly wars as soon as possible; we can't have the Vikings get killed!

So the tech order: Steam Power->Industrialization->Medicine->Electricity->Replaceable Parts->Scientific Method->Sanitation (if there's time)->Atomic Theory->Electronics->The Corporation->Refining->Steel->Combustion ....

We can easily explain away the build order. Steam Power is for the railroads. Industrialization for the factories. With these two, we get PRODUCTION, the most important end game factor. With these, we can start a prebuild for Theory of Evolution (and if we get one of those SGL's we can have Universal Suffrage as well).

Medicine and Electricity will allow us to irrigate wherever we want, good for scientific farms and our island towns especially when paired up with rails.

Replaceable Parts; do I need to go into this? Since we don't need Nationalism and those other dumb techs (except maybe Espionage), we get infantry. We also get artillery. And 2X speed workers, I think these can lay rails in 2 turns each.

By now the prebuild should be about done. So we can either research Scientific Method or Sanitation. Or both if there's time. Yes, we actually have to have the tech to build the wonder. And yes, in order to have metroes and higher unit support, you have to research Sanitation and actually build the hospitals.

The rest should be obvious.

To avoid a war with the Iroquois, we can amass troops for a little while near our science towns. In addition to that, we will be finishing off universities and markets (and other buildings as necessary).

 

[Bucephalus]

I say we research Industrialization for factories. Hopefully, we have Coal.

About the Viking war:

I say that we lay back and let the others do the dirty work.

OK?

Those were just a sample of questions that I - and no-doubt others - would want to answer before playing any further turns. Though it's interesting that the only question that you answered, so nicely demonstrates the need for discussion. You say to research Industrialisation next? CB suggested a bee-line to RP's; I might make a case for Nationalism, since Iroquois now have Cavalry. Do you see? And that is just one point.

This is supposed to be a training game, so I fail to see your need for a speedy turnaround; Bede hasn't had a chance to comment on the last two turnsets, yet you're impatient to play more. Why? What will you, or any of us, learn from that?

 

[CommandoBob]

I say we research Industrialization for factories. Hopefully, we have Coal.

About the Viking war:

I say that we lay back and let the others do the dirty work.

OK?

'I say...'

There is so little to go on here to try to understand the context of 'I say...' Does it mean 'my idea' or 'my game'?

Communicating in a forum is very different from IM; very different indeed. First, it is not real time (except on rare occasions). Thus, there is no context for remarks. Each post stands alone on what it says. What is acceptable in a chat comes across very differently in a forum. Second, as others have already pointed out, this is a training game, which means the focus is discussion/teaching/kicking ideas around. Gameplay, yes, but it secondary (and often painful).

Now we have three different opinions on what to research after Steam Power. Each have strengths and weaknesses. Before we can decide on which way to go, we need to determine how those techs interact with our game position and the strengths and weaknesses of France and the world and our goals in this game. And we need guidance, if nothing else to tell us we are on the right track.

To sum up, we need to discuss our options and plans, come to a consenus and then move forward. This is at least implied in Post #1 of this thread.

That is, if 'I say...' means 'my idea'.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

My idea, it means.

 

[CommandoBob]

My idea, it means.

Good enough for me.

I can't recall what I wrote on this last week, but can we gift an AI up to our level once we get into the Industrial Age? If we can, should we and who would we?

The idea is pretty straightforward. We gift up a geeky Civ, see what their free tech is and then decide if we want to trade for it or not. Plus, it would give us an indication of what not to research.

So if we do this, we sort of have to wait until we get there to make our final decision on what to research, since we want to exploit what the AI knows.

If the AI gets Nationalism, they will probably begin researching that part of the tech tree, which means we could learn something else and try to trade it for Nationalism, if we decided we needed it.