D'Artagnan01: Low-level Training Day

[D'Artagnan59]

IBT: Learn Banking and enter IA!

We ARE in the IA. And we should gift Korea.

 

[CommandoBob]

We ARE in the IA. And we should gift Korea.

Should we gift Korea up now or wait until we learn Steam Power (3 turns) and then gift Korea up and maybe trade Steam Power for their freebie?

My thinking is to wait, so that we have something to bargin with. If the freebie is Nationalism and if we are heading to Replaceable Parts, then ignore the tech and keep learning. If it is Medicine, let us get it. Then we can discuss whether to head to RP or try for Theory of Evolution/Hoover Dam or make factories.

(Is Korea the only SCI civ in the game? Seems odd.)

 

[Bucephalus]

Ordinarily, in my solo games, I wouldn't consider researching Nationalism at all; It offers little in the way of benefit. But I think that these are exceptional circumstances. We are worryingly weak militarily, especially since we have been so free and easy with our war declarations. Our inability to defend against Iroquois cavalry is such, that we might just as well be playing a no-military variant; our best defenders are a few pikes, our offensive capability consists of a handful of longbows. If we are lucky, gifting Korea may give us a trade for it.

My objection to going with Industrialisation is that it takes us no nearer to a better military, something which I believe to be a priority.

Going with the route to RP's gives us a longer period with weak military, and offers no guarentees that we will have the required resource for infantry.

I guess my thoughts encapsulated are this: I don't like our continued existance to be dependent on Iroquois good-will.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Industrialization=FACTORIES! FACTORIES=SHIELDS!!!

SHIELDS=MORE PRODUCTION

MORE PRODUCTION=MORE POWER

MORE POWER=MORE MILITARY

MORE MILITARY=MORE IROQUOIS DESTRUCTION

MORE IROQUOIS DESTRUCTION=IRON

IRON=FACTORIES IN EVERY CITY

FACTORIES IN EVERY CITY=MORE DOOM

MORE DOOM=DEAD IRO

Industrialization=Dead Iro.

My tech tree is: Steam-Indus-Elec-RP-Sanit-Sci-whatever.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Before Iro war, you MUST have Nationalism or RP. They have Horses and Salt.

 

[Bucephalus]

Industrialization=FACTORIES! FACTORIES=SHIELDS!!!

SHIELDS=MORE PRODUCTION

MORE PRODUCTION=MORE POWER

MORE POWER=MORE MILITARY

MORE MILITARY=MORE IROQUOIS DESTRUCTION

MORE IROQUOIS DESTRUCTION=IRON

IRON=FACTORIES IN EVERY CITY

FACTORIES IN EVERY CITY=MORE DOOM

MORE DOOM=DEAD IRO

Industrialization=Dead Iro.

My tech tree is: Steam-Indus-Elec-RP-Sanit-Sci-whatever.

All you gain (eventually - factories take a lot of shields, our cities are not high-shield) is the ability to build pikes and longbows more quickly; Hiawotsit would still have cavalry.
And researching the tech, plus building the factories, would take over thirty turns to realise; given the current state of world diplomatic relations, can you be certain - or even reasonably so - that we won't face an Iroquois attack in that time?

 

[Tribute]

We don't have saltpeter?

 

[CommandoBob]

T6: Trade ToG to Iro for Iron, 8 GPT, Treasury, PP, and WM. Spears changed to Pikes. Declare on Ragmop. Trade Bank to America for Alliance vs. Ragmop, MT, 31 GPT, and 100 Gold. Ally Egypt vs. Ragmop for Chem. Treb to Stras.

If I read this right, we have Military Tradition, for which we need Saltpeter and we have none. America has two. We have Horses, IIRC.

Can we trade with America for Saltpeter?

I forget who is UP next, but on the Pre-Flight, if they would at least see what Abe would demand for Saltpeter.

If we can get Saltpeter, we can build vCavs and be stronger. We could then consider the idea of heading for Replaceable Parts so that we have Infantry.

If we cannot get Saltpeter from Abe, we learn Nationalism as fast as we can.

Random War Thoughts
If we are convinced that the Iroquois will attack we need to plan for that. I am not sure how. It seems we have one or two options.

First, we garrison the border towns heavily, so as to deter an attack and beat it to death when it happens.

Second, we garrison most of the border towns, leaving one undefended, knowing that it will attacked and lost. The towns behind it are well defended. We defend our interior and attack the Iroquois nation. They capture a city that we can retake fairly easily while we capture/raze three or four of their cities.

The first plan is probably the better. The second one is a bit wilder, since we willingly give up a city and have enemy units in our territory at the same time we have our units inside their territory. The city loss and the location of units, both ours and theirs, would add to our war weariness quite quickly, which means cranky cities trying to shut down production.

Plus, while we don't want war with Hiawatha, he may want war with us. We need some hills and mountains for space ship resources, don't we?

So maybe we need to plan a limited war of conquest in order to secure these things. Or else wait until the resources are revealed and slug it out then. I don't us want to depend upon trading for strategic resources for us to get to the stars.

 

[Bucephalus]

Perhaps if I list our military, it might focus your collective minds a little:

We have seven pikes, seven longbows, one knight, one MI; Oh, and we are paying unit maintainance on a spearman, and ten trebuchets, neither of which are, or will be, of any use to us.

So forgive me if I continue to pursue this theme, but I consider that we are beyond weak when compared to cavalry; and any thoughts of invading Iroquois are premature to say the least.

 

[Bucephalus]

I forget who is UP next,

It was to be me, but D'art may have different ideas. Also, IMO, we should wait until TGOM has had a chance to comment; we have already played two turnsets without his analysis.

If we are convinced that the Iroquois will attack we need to plan for that.

The AI's behaviour is - by definition - random; IMO the stakes are too high to ignore even the possibility that they may attack. I don't believe that currently we could even put up a fight. We must address this before we go any further - we have got regular pikes being built in six cities; is that really the way we want to go? Hell, London doesn't even have a barracks.
I know that ultimately we are looking to launch a spaceship; IMO this has to go hand in hand with military strength, enough at least for self-preservation.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Ya. Standby mode: On.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Wrong civ, Commando. We aren't the AI. We are France.

 

[CommandoBob]

Wrong civ, Commando. We aren't the AI. We are France.

Uh, context, please.

Barracks
IIRC, we have only three barracks, Paris, Orleans and Stausborg up north (relying on my memory, so the cities may be wrong, but I think the count is correct).

We need about three more, I think. Not sure where, since our core is rather limited in shields. At work, no game, so really cannot address the issue very well.

 

[Tribute]

Ridiculous, we are almost at infantry. Using infantry, guerillas, and artilleries should be fine. We can keep some cavalry, cannons, and musketeers if we buy saltpeter though, for pre-replacable parts, not to mention we can have our GA if we do that.

 

[Bucephalus]

Wrong civ, Commando. We aren't the AI. We are France.

Wrong person, D'art; and yes, I meant Paris.

 

[Bucephalus]

Ridiculous

There have been six posts since your last one, you'll need to be more specific.

 

[CommandoBob]

Hell, London doesn't even have a barracks.

Oh, this is what he was talking about.

Somehow I got the impression that Paris was not going to be a producer of fighting units. Can't say how I got that impression, but I did somehow. Thus, no barracks in Paris was acceptable.

Building regular units when we have barracks should not be happening, not this far into the game. Should have built barracks first, then units. It may be possible to make this change in the IBT. I don't think we are so weak that we must build regular units, especially if we can switch the pike builds to barracks and then build vet Pikes.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Who Is Taking The Save!

 

[CommandoBob]

I will on vacation August 21 to 28 (Monday to Monday). We are taking my son back to school in Kentucky. Skip me as needed.

 

[Bede]

I am going to celebrate my return by playing the save. Looks like we have made our primary objective of nailing the two scientific wonders - Good!

After that the received wisdom says go down the path of Industrialzation and Medicine for Scientific Method and Hoover's Dam and I see no reason to buck convention on that one.

Our lack of military is a real problem and the resources thing is the biggest stumbling block. If we get to RP guerillas and artillery will make a sufficient defensive force. Getting there is the problem. If I remember the map right the jungles are on the other continent - so that's where the oil and coal and rubber will be.

Just thinking out loud here but we need the factories to cover our lack of shields so Steam to Industrialization is the way to go first, then think about how to get past the lack of resources.

Also to make the gifting of SCI nations a viable ploy we will need at least a couple of tradeable optional techs, I'll take a look at the best way to acquire those.

I am not going to review it in detail but D'Art's trading was not the best. It looks like too much was given away for too little, but if it got us peace, then there is a small value there, though the notion tat was floated of buying peace with money then trading tech out for the cash was a good one.

So here we go CIVVING!