D'Artagnan01: Low-level Training Day

[vmxa]

Lurker:

CommandoBob:
Consider that AT at emperor cost 6000 beakers on a std map and Elec 5400. That is 11,400 beakers.

If you are making 600 bpt, that is 10 turns for AT and 9 for Elec. So 19 turns. If you can make the wonder in 8 to 10 turns, that is worth it. You use one city and can maybe do 2 techs while the build occurs or 1 with a prebuild that is not intended to be timed.

So it is so far and away a wise move, it must be done, if you have the were with all to pull it off.

At that stage of most emperor games, you are top dog and it is much better that you get it than they get it. You can elect to trade one of these for some expensive lux and allies, if it suites you.

The GLB is marginal in games below deity for most strategies. I dislike it the most at demi as it does the least imo. Emperor is ok under some situations.

Say you are going for domination. You can build it to deny it to others and pile up some cash for upgrades, while you pick up a few techs. It is maybe not cost effective, but it does not have to be either. This is not the case in a SS game as you do not want to slow down researching.

Below emperor, you pretty much have to keep researching anyway, so it is a waste of shields. Now I am not talking about players that struggle at these levels, but those that can actually run an empire.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Vmxa, the AT/elec thingy. What exactly does that have to do with the GLb? And I said, try to get it if you think you can get it. If you have a good reason for doing so, like getting some free techs or just denying it to the AI, that's a good reason to try.

 

[vmxa]

lurker's comment: Vmxa, the AT/elec thingy. What exactly does that have to do with the GLb?

Nothing, see post by CommandoBob previous to mind as he mentioned the ToE.

 

[Bede]

Since Domination is not the goal let an AI have the Great Library. It will be a bigger help to us in another's hands as it will cheapen techs we may want to trade for.

 

[CommandoBob]

Bridgekeeper: Stop. Who would cross the Bridge of Death must answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see.
CommandoBob: Ask me the questions, bridgekeeper. I am not afraid.
Bridgekeeper: What... is your name?
CommandoBob: My name is CommandoBob of D'Artagnan01.
Bridgekeeper: What... is your quest?
CommandoBob: To seek Alpha Centauri.
Bridgekeeper: What... is your favourite colour?
CommandoBob: Blue.
Bridgekeeper: Go on. Off you go.
CommandoBob: Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.
D'Artagnan59: That's easy.
Bridgekeeper: Stop. Who would cross the Bridge of Death must answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see.
D'Artagnan59: Ask me the questions, bridgekeeper. I'm not afraid.
Bridgekeeper: What... is your name?
D'Artagnan59: D'Artagnan59 of D'Artagnan01.
Bridgekeeper: What... is your quest?
D'Artagnan59: To seek Alpha Centauri.
Bridgekeeper: What... is the location of the last saved game?
[pause]
D'Artagnan59: I don't know that.
[he is thrown over the edge into the volcano]
D'Artagnan59: Auuuuuuuugh.

(Hint. Hint.)

 

[Bede]

Nice one Commando

 

[choxorn]

I remember that from a movie- what was it called?

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Continued:

D'Artagnan59: Augh. Augh. *dives into volcano* *comes up with save, unburned, unscathed, and healed, but very sweaty* *tosses save to Bridgekeeper*
Bridgekeeper+Team: Thank you so much!
D'Artagnan59: Where is the next river?
Bridgekeeper: 10 miles away.
D'Artagnan59 hands over save to Tribute while his new pet lava golem follows and gives D'Artagnan59 the ability to resist lava.

View attachment D'Artagnan of the French, 310 BC.SAV

 

[choxorn]

So you're not playing the other ten turns in your set?

 

[Bede]

Continued:

D'Artagnan59: Augh. Augh. *dives into volcano* *comes up with save, unburned, unscathed, and healed, but very sweaty* *tosses save to Bridgekeeper*
Bridgekeeper+Team: Thank you so much!
D'Artagnan59: Where is the next river?
Bridgekeeper: 10 miles away.
D'Artagnan59 hands over save to Tribute while his new pet lava golem follows and gives D'Artagnan59 the ability to resist lava.

View attachment 128257

Nice comeback, D'Artagnan

 

[gmaharriet]

So you're not playing the other ten turns in your set?

lurker's comment: choxorn, I know your preference is to play 15 or 20 turns per set, but the usual standard in most SG's is 10.

 

[Bede]

@gmaharriet-if you have time, would you take a gander at the 310 file and post your impressions and thoughts, or even thoughful questions. It will give me a platform for further analysis later. Thanks.

 

[vmxa]

lurker's comment:
One thing that is worth mention is to check on the research. It is 1 turn away, but you could drop the slider down a few nothces and still get the break through in one turn.

 

[gmaharriet]

@gmaharriet-if you have time, would you take a gander at the 310 file and post your impressions and thoughts, or even thoughful questions. It will give me a platform for further analysis later. Thanks.

lurker's comment: There are so many training games going on right now with many of the same participants, I'm losing track of which is which. This one is Space Ship, right?

I'll give it a look. You KNOW I always have questions.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment:
One thing that is worth mention is to check on the research. It is 1 turn away, but you could drop the slider down a few nothces and still get the break through in one turn.

lurker's comment:
you forgot the other delurk tag

lurker's comment: choxorn, I know your preference is to play 15 or 20 turns per set, but the usual standard in most SG's is 10.

This one isn't twenty? And it is not my preference.

Twenty turns for AA and MiddleA. Ten for IA and ModernA.

Also, after D'artagnan's tenth turn, he said he was taking a break.

 

[Tribute]

So I play 20 turns? I guess I will then. I have the save, but we should really have a different name for it. Maybe Dartagnan01310BC.SAV

But first I must wait for the reactions to the save. It's a training day after all.

We have math in 1. 145g with -6gpt. With 40% science it is still in 1. with +20gpt

England is down a non-monopolized The Republic. Literature is still a monopoly. We can obtain Mysticism HBr and all 112g from them for The Republic. We should actually go to the Iro's/English for Mystics first since they probably have Polytheism already.

I see no iron except in Iro's Centralia. We need to take that soon. Also, in that war, they have Ivory and horses even more north. We must capture that town before they start spawning Mounted Warriors or build SoZ.

Almost all towns are making libraries and courthouses. Paris needs to be put back on its settler cycle. Such sadness.

We only have 2 settlers for 3 galleys and only 1 town making a settler. Not good. Some builds will be changed.

And finally Lyons the mighty is our only city and the one for the FP; I assume a palace jump will occur? Then a war for a great leader -> rush Palace will be required; we have a great cause to declare war on the Iroquois.

I wonder what you think about such a course of action.

 

[gmaharriet]

you forgot the other delurk tag

This one isn't twenty? And it is not my preference.

Also, after D'artagnan's tenth turn, he said he was taking a break.

vmxa isn't using the "official" delurk tags...just the word and a colon.

I'd be extremely surprised if a training game were 20 turns. The whole idea is to play a little bit and then analyze and discuss what happened and what to do next, not to hurry up and get the game played.

I thought d'Artagnan took a break after 4 turns and then finished.

OK, per Bede's request I took a look at the save, and here are my thoughts for whatever they're worth:

d'Artagnan 310bc Notes:

I'm a bit puzzled why this save is at the beginning of a turn, rather than the end-of-turn. It gives the next player no opportunity to do a pre-flight check. If it's because the recent player started the turn and didn't know what to do next, best to say so and ask for advice. (Ask Bede how often I've done just that.)

Holy Moly!!!!! Looks like you're about to lose a settler/archer pair, standing right next to a barb camp with 24 horses and 1 warrior. Since they have movement, I'd probably try to move away, but I'm not sure if that would work. Reinforcements are too far away and probably too few.

The core city placement looks good. Although I can appreciate why you'd want to get the wines so distant from your core, I think I'd settle in that direction more slowly or (at least) have archers out patrolling to light up the areas in the fog and prevent barb camps from forming. There are 2 extra units in Rheims and 1 in Dijon who can't help with MP duties (max 2 for MP), and they could have been keeping the barb camps at bay.

Amiens has been placed on a separate island with LOTS of fog for barb camps to form and a single archer for defense. The 2 wheats there are nice, but a coastal location would have made it easier to reinforce, since your galleys can sail right into the town with units having full movement points left to help defend. Personally, I'd have avoided settling a new island until the main continent was fully settled or if I had a huge defense force to protect the new outpost. You can settle agressively with barb settings of "none" or "sedentary", but seems like this game is "raging".

As vmxa mentioned, Mathematics is due in one and the SCI slider can be turned down (40% in this case) to get the tech next turn with +20 gold.

Orleans is building a court, but towns that close to the capitol don't need them with corruption being so low. Swapping to a lib would be more useful.

Trading - This is a weak area for me and I believe the usual "rule of thumb" is to start with the richest AI first. However, in this case, Hiawatha will give Maths, HBR, Myst and all his gold (20) for lit. If you take that deal, you'll be able to see that Liz has Poly and will trade it plus 112 gold (all) for Republic (which Hiawatha already has). So you would now have all the techs available and all the world's gold. For the next tech I'd choose Currency, since the AI tends to go for Construction.

@Bede If this is not a good trade, I could use some pointers. I figured horses were needed (not chariots) for barb suppression, could build cats in corrupt towns rather than regular units, and use the additional gold for research. Myst and Poly were "just because I could" I'm afraid. I don't think these trades followed your "3 rules" exactly, so your comments would be valuable.

I forgot to take a screenie. I'll try to go back and get one.

 

[gmaharriet]

Here's the screenie for 310bc. It doesn't reflect the status after the tech-trading I experimented with.

 

[CommandoBob]

Continued:
...
D'Artagnan59 hands over save to Tribute while his new pet lava golem follows and gives D'Artagnan59 the ability to resist lava.

Great follow through!

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:
yeah I did not use the tags. GMH if you can spend off your cash you could found a town with the settler and at least not lose it. The barbs will just sack the place.

If you are not using NoAIPatrol, you may be able to get on the proper diagional and they will ignore you. I can't recall what it is though.