Dawn of Civilization v1.12 Discussion

[Leoreth]

Bug Reports is when something actually doesn't work. Crashes, Python exceptions and stuff that's clearly not intended, e.g. I say seafood will be preferred by culture coverage but in reality it is covered last.

1.13 is for me to announce changes and commits and for you to discuss their effect. For instance, when I announce that culture will expand one tile at a time and you think that is a stupid idea, it goes here.

This thread is to discuss features that have nothing to do with recent changes. For instance, if say you think that bribery costs are too high in congresses, it goes here.

How about making development discussion thread and current version(1.12) question thread?

Since 1.13 is still in development, the associated thread is obviously a development discussion thread.

 

[Novicenoble]

That clears the problem

 

[Spirictum]

Hey Leoreth,

Once again coming here with the issues of the Democratic Caliphate there on S&T, I stumbled upon a math problem I can't overcome.


I've been reading the XML and python files on Rev 707 (still before 1.12 actually) because that's the revision of the Caliphate game, and I'm finally discovering some interesting things about Handicap and Stability.

I'll bring the development of my thoughts to show you how I reached the point of my question:

Although I didn't know the Handicap level we were using, I simply went to Handicap.xml to check the Unit Support Cost. It's 55% on Prince, 75% on Monarch and 95% on Emperor. Our total unit cost is 65, our handicap bonus is -14, which brings the total to 51. 55% of 65 is 35, 75% of 65 is 48 and 95% of 65 is 61, so it seems the closer is Monarch, so I suppose we are playing on Monarch.

Then I counted all our population points, which yielded 116. With this number I applied the default formula of free units by population, multiplying this number by 0.24 and it gave me 27 free units.

Going back to handicap.xml I saw that Monarch gives 5 free units from start. 27+5 = 32. But in the Unit cost screen it appears Free Support for 36 units. I checked the civic advisor, and no civic option gave us Free Units.

To be sure about the pop percent I went to GlobalDefines.xml and checked there the percent_pop factor and it is 24 (0.24).


Is there something else that could be contributing to those 4 extra free units?

 

[Leoreth]

No idea, I've never made these calculations on my own.

 

[Spirictum]

Going deeper on Civics.xml the only civic which gives a discount is Levy Armies, with 5 base free units and +0.1 to population free units percent. We are using Warrior Code, so it doesn't apply to us.

My problem comes from the fact that I don't know to which Counselor belongs these 4 extra free units. If I can't come with any explanation to this, I'll give this bonus to the Caliph Army itself, to be just.


EDIT: SOLVED

I knew there was something telling me that there were two places which gave free unit information, so I went back to Global Defines and there it is. In any difficulty the game provides 4 free units. If you're playing on Monarch you get +5 (+8 on Prince and +1 on Emperor). So now I know, and I'll give the Caliph this discount.

EDIT 2: BTW Leoreth, may I ask you a favor? I have no clue how the handicap bonus is calculated, but I know it isn't:

[(Total Number of Troops) - (Free Units)] * 0.75], because if it was it would result in 48 gold spent, and it is resulting in 51.

I imagine you have these lines of code in a .cpp file, so could you bring those lines just for me to know how to put the formula in excel? I'm making several graphs for the Caliphate, and this info is essential.


EDIT 3: What's funny is that if I ignore the Global Defines free units (4) and do Total Units - Free Units (Population + 5 from Monarch) I get the result it shows me, so for the calcs:

[101(Total units) - 32(Free units)] * 0.75(Handicap discount) = 51 (the number that is shown on the Unit Cost tab of the Financial Advisor).

But these Free units shouldn't be 32, but 36 (adding the Global Defines Free Units). But maybe the game isn't accounting those on the formula. Could you check that on the source please? I would do it but DoC doesn't come with source files.

 

[Leoreth]

Ah, now I get why this is so important for you.

I thought you were playing SVN? Source files are included there.

In RFC, the handicap modifier is altered by a number of factors. I've just seen that Rhye added that beginning with the medieval era the modifier increases by 3% per era. Furthermore, the civ specific upkeep modifier is applied which is also multiplicative. For Arabia it is 1.05. One last thing: all civs that spawn before the Vikings get another 0.9 multiplier if the scenario is 600 AD or 1700 AD.

 

[Spirictum]

You're right, I totally skipped checking the CvGameCoreDLL folder. Somehow I was used to the Source folder of Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn, that not seeing it on the DoC folder made me believe this. I'll check there.

But where exactly are these extra handicap factors infos? I'm not as used to the source files as I am to the XML.

I'm sure we are in a scenario from the start because Anqarah is the seat of Buddhism (600AD scenario wouldn't have that right?)

Using the 1.05 factor you gave me the total goes to the 51 that is shown. We are in the Medieval Era btw, so I guess the era factor isn't influencing us yet.

 

[Leoreth]

Good, so it all works out!

The place to look is calculateUnitCost in CvPlayer.cpp, which in turn is using getUnitCostPercentByID in CvInfos.cpp, which in turn used the civ modifiers defined in CvRhyes.cpp

 

[Royal Tenenbaum]

Workers can no longer be captured, and a city with 20 workers now takes years to take, as an individual unit has to kill each individual worker. What was the purpose of removing the move to plot of victory mechanic?

 

[Leoreth]

It wasn't removed on purpose.

 

[NKN]

I was playing as Rome (a few commits before v12) and tried to conquer the entire world. Once I had ~50 cities (about 20% of the land), my expenses were high, as expected, but they seemed too high. Then I checked: 350% inflation! In the year 1750! How?? Is there any way too keep inflation from quintupling my expenses?

 

[CaterpillarKing]

That's probably due to having an archaic civ live so long and be so massive. I am curious as to what this civ looks like.

 

[ezzlar]

I was playing as Rome (a few commits before v12) and tried to conquer the entire world. Once I had ~50 cities (about 20% of the land), my expenses were high, as expected, but they seemed too high. Then I checked: 350% inflation! In the year 1750! How?? Is there any way too keep inflation from quintupling my expenses?

I had about 500% as the Romans. Since it is so easy to dominate all the other civs you should have some challenges!

 

[Leoreth]

I was playing as Rome (a few commits before v12) and tried to conquer the entire world. Once I had ~50 cities (about 20% of the land), my expenses were high, as expected, but they seemed too high. Then I checked: 350% inflation! In the year 1750! How?? Is there any way too keep inflation from quintupling my expenses?

Can I have a look at that game (+ revision number)?

Historically inflation was among the things that brought down the Romans though

 

[DC123456789]

Inflation usually ends up being kind of ridiculous whenever you bring an ancient civ beyond whenever it's supposed to survive.

 

[citis]

What are the mechanics of inflation?

 

[Leoreth]

MV = PQ.

 

[Vekkimaster]

What is the mechanic behind war-at-spawn when playing Roma and HR is born? I never have cities in their spawn area. Sometimes we are at war from the gekko and sometimes not

 

[citis]

MV = PQ.

Is it applied in-game? Which quantity is the inflation then? And believe me, you don't want to post my ideas on real economics and how they could be implemented in-game.

 

[Leoreth]

What is the mechanic behind war-at-spawn when playing Roma and HR is born? I never have cities in their spawn area. Sometimes we are at war from the gekko and sometimes not

It's simply random.

Is it applied in-game? Which quantity is the inflation then? And believe me, you don't want to post my ideas on real economics and how they could be implemented in-game.

Of course not. It doesn't make much sense to do that anyway. Inflation as a game mechanic has very little to do with real inflation.