Dec 26th teaser

[leandrombraz]

It's not just count, it's also relevance. I think one could argue pretty easily that Isabella is more important to Spanish history, or Boudica is more important to pre-saxon british celtic history, than Gitarja or Wilhelmina was to their respective histories.

Then again, G&K also included Dido who didn't even exist, so who knows.

Yeah, not really.

They are female, people expect historical leaders to be male, so they will find a reason to complain. The only female leaders that get a pass are English queens and Isabella, everyone else have something people will point out as a reason why they don't deserve the spot. Maria Theresa? Wasn't even Holy Roman Emperor, her husband was. Catherine? She wasn't even Russian. Dido probably didn't exist, Boudicca was a footnote in roman history, Theodora didn't actually rule and so on.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Yeah, not really.

They are female, people expect historical leaders to be male, so they will find a reason to complain. The only female leaders that get a pass are English queens and Isabella, everyone else have something people will point out as a reason why they don't deserve the spot. Maria Theresa? Wasn't even Holy Roman Emperor, her husband was. Catherine? She wasn't even Russian. Dido probably didn't exist, Boudicca was a footnote in roman history, Theodora didn't actually rule and so on.

Hem hem... Wu Zetian and Hatshepsut say hello

 

[leandrombraz]

Hem hem... Wu Zetian and Hatshepsut say hello

Hi, Wu Zetian

Hatshepsut gets a pass... for now...

 

[Cerilis]

Hi, Wu Zetian

Hatshepsut gets a pass... for now...

"A pass? Please, there are much more important male pharaos!"

 

[Morningcalm]

Wu Zetian was the only female in Chinese history who ruled as empress in her own right--all the others, such as Cixi, held a lot of power but were not "huangdi" as such. So Wu Zetian was "huangdi" and as such deserves a spot in Civ V. She was rather vicious, however, so perhaps it's alright that she's not in Civ VI.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

In CivII EVERY civ had a male and female leader (even if they made them up). I continue to fail to see the big deal about any of this.

 

[Sagax]

3 females (2 announced + one we know exist) out of 9 leaders is hardly "full feminist". Gods & Kings had 4 females out of 9 leaders (5 out of 10 if you count Isabella, which was released as DLC first then included in the expac), so it's even less feminist than the first expansion Civ V got. People are under this impression only because they started the reveal with two females in a row.

More like Firaxis shot themselves in the foot by introducing CdM, Cleo, and Gorgo as Vanilla leaders - that’s what creates the wrong impression. You “dilute” the initial pool with some questionable choices, which leaves a bad aftertaste when they later introduce actually relevant female leaders and skews the discussion towards them trying to meet the quota.

This debate would have been much milder if instead of the above-mentioned trio they introduced Isabella, Cathy the Great, and Hatshepsut, with Leonidas “leading Sparta”.

 

[Haig]

So called "gamers" are full of these alt-right losers and "men's rights activists", of course they get mad from female representation.

 

[Talcove]

This debate would have been much milder if instead of the above-mentioned trio they introduced Isabella, Cathy the Great, and Hatshepsut, with Leonidas “leading Sparta”.

That's incredibly naive. Anybody who has spent enough time on the internet and around """hardcore""" gamers knows how they act when the discussion turns to female characters, and that it is not pleasant.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Hi, Wu Zetian

Hatshepsut gets a pass... for now...

I can also send a link here from CivFanatics.

Btw. While Maria Theresa wasn't the empress of HRE, she actually ruled over the Habsburg Monarchy, being the archduchess of Austria, queen of Bohemia, queen of Hungary, etc. I see totally no problem with her, especially when she was one of the best Habsburg leaders

 

[Sagax]

That's incredibly naive. Anybody who has spent enough time on the internet and around """hardcore""" gamers knows how they act when the discussion turns to female characters, and that it is not pleasant.

Extremes are extremes - not everyone in this debate is triggered by the very fact that a female leader is included. There are also people who are ok with female leaders as long as the choices are sensible.

In fact, I don’t see Wilhelmina getting any huge backlash simply for being female. At most some just wish the Orange could return to the game, but that’s without downplaying the current leader choice. Seondeok’s case is more complicated, the debate around her inclusion has a mix of everything - from competence as a ruler to not representing the famous Korean plastic surgery advancements (fixed by Firaxis as of now)

 

[Guandao]

So the Chandragupta Maurya video is this week, while the Cree will probably be next week.



I showed my mom (who's fluent in Mandarin Chinese) this picture, and she said the white subtitles are mentioning someone's name (Chandragupta Maurya), "Damo" (probably Dharma), something about reconstructing and army training. Too bad the text is too small for her to understand completely.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

So the Chandragupta Maurya video is this week, while the Cree will probably be next week.

View attachment 483868

I showed my mom (who's fluent in Mandarin Chinese) this picture, and she said the white subtitles are mentioning someone's name (Chandragupta Maurya), "Damo" (probably Dharma), something about reconstructing and army training. Too bad the text is too small for her to understand completely.

Considering the image shows the "Purchase with Faith" menu, your mom is probably reading it correctly. It's hard to say completely without context, but I would guess that Not-Gandhi gets some kind of bonus for purchasing units with Faith.

 

[leandrombraz]

I can also send a link here from CivFanatics.

Btw. While Maria Theresa wasn't the empress of HRE, she actually ruled over the Habsburg Monarchy, being the archduchess of Austria, queen of Bohemia, queen of Hungary, etc. I see totally no problem with her, especially when she was one of the best Habsburg leaders

That's the point. People will nitpick something meaningless if the leader isn't someone that is easy to point as unworthy.

 

[Sagax]

I showed my mom (who's fluent in Mandarin Chinese) this picture, and she said the white subtitles are mentioning someone's name (Chandragupta Maurya), "Damo" (probably Dharma), something about reconstructing and army training. Too bad the text is too small for her to understand completely.

The text on that caption just reiterates that Chandragupta keeps all the other uniques from India: Dharma ability, construction of Stepwells and training of war elephants (Varu).

 

[nitedemon]

You are talking as if Qin Shi Huang is such an angel in real life. I would argue that in order to be an emperor in ancient China (or modern china, or other places), you kinda have to do the “necessary evil” to stay in power. And Wu Ze Tian would have to be extra “vicious” just because she had the disadvantage of being a woman in ancient China.

Wu Zetian was the only female in Chinese history who ruled as empress in her own right--all the others, such as Cixi, held a lot of power but were not "huangdi" as such. So Wu Zetian was "huangdi" and as such deserves a spot in Civ V. She was rather vicious, however, so perhaps it's alright that she's not in Civ VI.

 

[Morningcalm]

You are talking as if Qin Shi Huang is such an angel in real life. I would argue that in order to be an emperor in ancient China (or modern china, or other places), you kinda have to do the “necessary evil” to stay in power. And Wu Ze Tian would have to be extra “vicious” just because she had the disadvantage of being a woman in ancient China.

I said nothing about Qin Shi Huang.

Nor did I say her viciousness was not in some way necessary. But I do think murdering a child in the way she did is unnecessary. There were other ways for her to consolidate power without taking that dark step.

 

[Siptah]

You are talking as if Qin Shi Huang is such an angel in real life. I would argue that in order to be an emperor in ancient China (or modern china, or other places), you kinda have to do the “necessary evil” to stay in power. And Wu Ze Tian would have to be extra “vicious” just because she had the disadvantage of being a woman in ancient China.

Huangdi = Chinese Emperor. A title, not a person.

Edit: too late.

 

[Uberfrog]

Don't worry, we'll probably all call him Chandy or something.

I think Chandra works quite well as a shortening, or if that’s not enough you can just go for Chan.

 

[Kimiimaro]

You are talking as if Qin Shi Huang is such an angel in real life. I would argue that in order to be an emperor in ancient China (or modern china, or other places), you kinda have to do the “necessary evil” to stay in power. And Wu Ze Tian would have to be extra “vicious” just because she had the disadvantage of being a woman in ancient China.

Many leaders in Civ VI aren't saints. For example Qin Shi Huang you mentioned. While quite competent leader, he was also a brutal man who did horrible things, like erasing history by burning books and killing Confucian scholars.

And let's not forget about Alexander. Persians hardly gave him the Achaemenid Empire as a gift. And of course, the sack of Persepolis.

Then we have Genghis, who killed about 11% of the world's population (which actually helped the planet ).

And how could I forget about the "bloodthirsty backstabbing warmonger Cyrus the (not so) Great"