Settled in place. Settled 2nd city 4E of Delhi to have the Marble in the first ring. Went Fishing - BW - Wheel - Pottery - Writing - Masonry - Poly - Priesthood - (Aesthetics).
Fogbusting strategy :
Spoiler:
Note that I use two warriors to fogbust the East, so many times the barbs just won't attack (I have a woodsman II guy already).
This is the earliest great wall I've ever seen from the AI...
Spoiler:
Polytheism planned for 1440BC, getting ready for mass chopping...
Spoiler:
These fast workers are amazing
However...
Spoiler:
Obviously the AI is cheating
1440BC the Oracle isn't gone yet, 3T to Priesthood --> why not?
I get Priesthood in 1320BC, whip a settler into it + 3 chops... 1200BC 1T to complete the Oracle and then...
Spoiler:
I don't care, I needed Priesthood anyways, right? Getting the Oracle would have been a little cheesy here. Plus I don't really want that GP pollution, so it's no big deal.
Quick fail gold isn't bad either...
Now I'm going to explore a little, and hopefully expand to 5-6 cities ASAP. Will probably build GL + NE in the capital as it isn't much of a cottage spot, this will speed up the GP generation. I don't see any really wrong decisions I've made until now (except not exploring enough, but we already know it's isolation, right? ). Next city is probably the fish + sheep spot. I will probably pause Aesthetics and go for Sailing (and AH, maybe) first. I don't think I'll build an Academy before Astro here.
I attached the save if anyone wants to look at it. I played very quickly so the micro was most likely suboptimal.
Edit : Build order :
Delhi - half worker - wb - worker - whip wb - 2*warrior - half warrior - settler - granary - finish warrior - library - worker - settler - 4/5 Oracle
Bombay - wb (whip) - library (not finished yet) ; maybe should have built a granary in Bombay first, didn't do the maths...
I reloaded a couple of times because of miscalculations / wrong timing in whip overflow / worker turns (I know, that's cheesy )
Ok I'm one step closer to losing my mind. Write-up later, but someone just tell me what my winning chance is based on this save. Because this is where I usually screw it up really hard.
@Rusten you played a great game with Willem, but how big a deal was the Steel lib? Tech pace seems rather fast in my game here, Lib went 600 AD or something and it just seems that by the time I attack someone here they will all have Rifling and stuff. I just don't see how that's supposed to work. I won't have the happy cap for mass drafting so it's just looking bleak no matter how I look at it. If I gave you this save, would you feel confident to win? Or did I already mess up earlier?
Build Oxford or not? Turn down slider and wait for Oxford? I don't knooow. I need some hope to keep going.
@Pedro78 Thanks for giving it a try Don't push yourself too much with the upcoming exams and stuff. Looks good, just expansion a bit slow maybe? But I definitely think that Literature->Monarchy is the way to go here. Taoism went 500 BC, 0 chance to get it. I hit Astro 520 AD.
I'm not sure whether I'll have the time to finish my game anytime soon, so I looked at your save.
Please excuse me in advance for the wall of text
What I would have done differently :
I would have expanded faster (in the early ADs most likely), so that every city has granary + forge (and harbor if possible) by the time I reach Astro. That's because being philosophical, you can instantly switch to caste, and pacifism a bit later, and go full-gpp mode. Of course the maintenance costs would hurt before Astro, but it would put you in a stronger position when you reach it. Also, why didn't you settle more cities on the coast? Then, probably turn off research until you can double-bulb Edu, and produce as many GMs as possible, with the food you have on the island, 7 GS + 4 GM shouldn't be impossible before 1000AD. In the meantime, build tons of HA (upgrade cost to cuirs is 170G, so 4GM = 6800G (maybe more) = 40 upgrades exactly). This is realy late for cuirassiers but looking at the tech pace, you can easily take out Shaka, and then you will have the necessary hammers to keep rolling with cannons + drafted rifles.
From where you stand right now, I would probably do the same, except it will be a little slower, but...
Spoiler:
I'm still pretty confident that you can take out Shaka with cuirs, he is not going to get rifling anytime soon, + he is plotting so that will slow him down (shouldn't be a problem even if he declares on you, as you have naval superiority + can bribe Toku on him). After you're done with Shaka, you should be able to take out Toku with cuirs aswell, as he is really small. Then you should be able to wing it with infantry + artillery. It is not going to be an easy game for sure. If you get enough good land from the war with Shaka, you could also tech to nukes.
Oh and I wouldn't even consider building Oxford here until the very late game. You don't have any city with a high enough base commerce to justify it (and no stone, right?).
Again that's just my thoughts, I might be mistaken and your game might be unwinnable, but I think it is in a (relatively) winnable position as long as you don't do any major mistake (or get AP-cheesed ).
Thanks for your detailed feedback . I Definitely agree about Oxford. Well, I get cheap universities so I considered it. But return on invest for something like Steel comes too late. By the time I build Oxford I would have already reached Steel anyway.
Yup I settled stuff a bit too late and stayed on 5 cities for a long time. Earlier astro vs. better infrastructure, I don't know. To be honest I was planning for an attack with cannons, so in that scenario I have enough time to get Granaries+Forges+Theatres everywhere. Maybe chop the globe theatre somewhere. Have to draft a lot.
I am not a big fan of Cuirs but you are right, it could work very nicely. Now it's maybe too late or too slow. Cities are underdeveloped. By the time I have 40 Cuirs it will be 1200 AD and that's just too late. Also, Cuirs obsolete after that. With cannons I can keep going for a while, later upgrade to Artillery or use to bombard city defense. Useful for a long time. Also drafting seemed like a great idea. A lot of food, low production. Drafted Rifles are so cheap and good. But if you can pull off a good Cuirs rush and get a footfold on the other continent (only need to take out one guy really, that will get you to 15+ cities and then you are #1 already and can out-tech everyone if you want ).
So yeah, maybe missed a chance there. Well, I will start a golden age and get out 2+ GM, plan is to upgrade Trebs to Cannons, maybe a few Macemen with CR2 and draft rifles. Buddhism spread to me (AP religion) so I think I will switch into that. Spreading it also means I get more protection against potential AP cheese. The problem with the whole thing is that my attack date will be something like 1300 AD. Makes me want to cry pretty much. In a normal game this is really late. (1000 AD Cuirs is also pretty late in a normal game and all the AI play a normal game, just you are slowed down + you have to ship all the horses so maybe attack would be even later, lets say 1050 AD... not the best date ever). And this is always the problem in isolated games for me. 90% of my games go like this:
Astro 500 AD
Civil Service 600 AD
Education 800 AD
Beeline Steel after trading for Gunpowder, Engineering etc. Trade for Printing Press, try get Replaceable Parts, maybe with Steel. Tech Rifling if nobody will give it yet.
Attack the weakest AI 1300 AD (everyone else is too big and/or has Rifles+Cavalry). Winrate resulting from that is pretty bad. Time inbetween is used to build up infrastructure. 1000 AD everyone goes Mercantilism and I tech with 300 beakers to Steel . If I pre-build troops I will tech even slower.
I want someone to give me 1-2 tips that will solve everything and make me win from the positions I get. Because I don't think the positions are really bad, I just don't leverage them correctly. But maybe this golden advice I want doesn't exist. And it's just a little bit of everyting. One mistake here, one mistake there. Combination kills me. I feel that city development is a big factor though. Grow? Whip buildings? Start building units? Or wealth? What improvements to choose? Are late cottages worth it? Just farm everything?
When I look at my save I feel like a bastard on father's day really. But okay, I will pick up my spirit now and try to launch an invasion. Will see how it goes. If you don't hear from me again I probably failed and joined a monastery without internet access to search for spiritual guidance. To try to find out what went wrong with my life when I can't win a simple Deity isolation game with two of the best leaders in the game.
One of the main reasons why I would go cuirs instead of steel in this particular case. Steel is just too far away if you can't lib' it (8000 assuming that you can trade for gunpowder + engi), if you manage to trade (or part-trade) for Nationalism, you only have to self-tech MT, which is 3300, i.e. 10T. If timed properly, you can probably have 40 cuirs in 20T or so (start building HAs, get out 3-4 GMs, then whip the hell out of your cities while the GMs travel). You can still probably hit Shaka before 1100AD, and he won't be anywhere near rifles by then (he usually goes Steel before Rifling from my experience). If timed properly, you can wipe him out in 10-15T depending on whether he's at war with someone else or not.
By the time you get to cannons, all the AIs will have rifles + cavalry, plus cannons are slow etc. And as you said you don't have a huge happy cap, so drafting will be very limited, which kinda reduces the benefits of going cannons.
I sadly can't give you very detailed advice on empire development, not being a great deity player myself (though I aim to improve ). Will be following that with interest if anyone has some miracle tips to give
Oh, a little OT, but didn't you say that you were going to make civ4 videos? Would definitely be nice to have another deity civ4 youtuber.
Edit :
I see you have a lot of forests left on the island. The best way to use the forests, as you have marble, is to chop them all into the NE/GL for failgold. This would have allowed you to reach Astro even sooner on this map. Also, don't neglect putting whip overflows into wonders, this is a very efficient way to convert food into gold when you have marble + high food. Oh and overflow gold from whips seems to work fine in my games, and I don't run Buffy.
It's just strange because I win most "normal" Deity games. Don't know my exact winrate, but I won 20+ games in a row at one point. Was my record and I had a sick flow. Many close wins etc with 2 turns before culture victory, no 1200 AD wins with high score like pro Deity players, but still regular wins without AP cheese or nukes. So you would think that I have some skills to deal with isolation. But nope. I feel like Emperor player again when I play isolation.
Winrate in isolated games is very bad for me. Maybe 25%. With full concentration. And I don't really understand why . If I figure out how to do this I won't be scared of any map anymore. Can just win everything then. Maybe.
I will maybe replay and go for Cuirs like you suggested, but decided to go cannons this time. Just because I need time to get the forges up etc. Ok they will have Rifles but I will just destroy them somehow. Shaka won't have Rifles until 1500 AD probably so can take him out. And others had them 1000 AD. So I would have 40 cuirs, Shaka as vassal (everyone hates him) and crashed economy maybe. I decided to go for longer game, but maybe a more sustainable war. I built Globe Theatre, Maoi, AP temples and all that crap. Capital size 20 with infrastructure. Traded for more happy stuff. After war I will tech like a beast. Have a good feeling here.
I abused failgold a lot with NE and Parthenon early on. Also a reason why I didn't like Philosophy. If you go for Philo bulb, by the time you get Aesthetics/Literature all wonders are gone. And only NE will be left for failgold. Probably got 1000 gold. With whip overflow aswell. Could have settled more cities earlier, just somehow didn't have the right feeling for the timing. With treb upgrades same problem again. Needed to finish Steel for important trades, but only built 7-8 trebs... I am planning to upgrade 20 CR2 Macemen now maybe. About to start golden age. 300 gold from Hermitage incoming (traded away marble by accident or could have been more). But again timing is bad. I already reached Rifling somehow but don't have any units to upgrade and attack lol. So will have to wait...
But I will crush everyone. What do you think? I want Cyrus first.
PS: Yeah I recorded a game, just have to upload to YouTube but I needed my computer for other stuff in the last weeks. Didn't think it would take 2+ hours per video upload... sucks a bit. And uploading slows down the computer so much so can't do anything else while I upload
PSS: Oh, I can pillage my iron and build more trebs... duh. Sometimes I wonder how I ever won a Deity game...
Ok so I had a revelation which will improve my winrate for Deity Isolation drastically. Basically you really have to upgrade stuff. It's not just a nice bonus or optional like in other games, you really have to do it in most cases. Reason for that is very simple. The nature of isolated games leads to narrower windows of attack.
1) 800 AD Cuirs or 1000 AD Cannons are impossible (I will just claim that for now, sure some pros might find a way to land with tanks and roll over Longbows or something...). I mean it's possible to get the tech, but you also need Galleons and ship all the stuff... even if you upgrade 30 Cuirs 800 AD (good luck), there will still be 5-10 turn delay because horsies can't swim and upgrades can't be done in foreign land, so there's that.
2) That also means that there just isn't enough time to get the military tech, produce for 10 turns and THEN attack. In normal games, no problem. Lib MT, whip Cuirs for 10 turns and roll the whole map. Works just fine. Yeah you can flick in some upgrades there aswell for fancy finish dates, but it's not necessary to actually win the game. Personally I usually don't do that at all. Obviously I know about the concept of upgrading, GM, bla bla. But in my cognitive repertoire the option "upgrade stuff" is not very salient. So it's not trivial to incorporate it into the core strategy if you don't naturally do it. In my mind it was a cute gimmick, but not as appreciated as it should be for this type of game in particular.
3) The cities you settle in isolation usually aren't natural production monsters either. Chances are most of the stuff will be coast, which means a lot of food, but low production. Things have to be whipped, Forges might come a bit later due to other tech priorities and no trading and there are limits from happy, or particularly, health caps. So even if you start whipping furiously upon reaching Steel, there is not really the leeway to whip 10x in 20 turns and draft additionally. And then there is the need for Galleons which makes things even worse.
4) So the build up of invasion army has to be spread out. Maybe started as early as 500 AD. Start whipping some trebs, macemen and prepare galleons. So the crucial happy cap and production bottleneck is circumnavigated. Basically upon hitting Rifling/Steel everything should be ready to go, bar a possible 4-5 turns of drafting to bulk up the numbers a bit. And easily possible if ships, siege (upgrades) and part of army (more upgrades) is already standing.
5) Globe Theatre is actually really strong. Never really built that thing, too expensive and not needed in most games. But in isolation with limited resources, really happy to have built it. Can be a source of crucial reinforcements to replenish the numbers.
I know all of this is not really Einstein material, but it's an adjustment of perception and a compass to the question "Ok it is 1 AD, I have to think about preparing the invasion soon." Instead, I was thinking more along the lines of "Astro is the goal. After that I will figure out what to do, just reach Astro and that will be enough, win will come somehow."
Key components are 1) Absolutely plan for upgrades, start building up GM pool and 2) Spread out the build up to cope with the narrower window of opportunity. Also have to account for a golden age with Caste+possible Pacifism, so that's also quite a few turns without whipping units. The whole dynamic is quite different and margins are finer. I also found that it can be a great move to tech Economics and bribe AIs into Free Market since chances are, without trade routes the tech rate will take a nosedive.
The strike has to be decisive and cleanly executed. This is absolutely not the case in normal games. I can usually do all kinds of crap, build Universities, build Oxford, enjoy the landscape of my beautiful empire while I just hit end turn, grow cottages, lalala. Then it's 1300 AD; notice that I reached Steel. Oh ok, let's start whipping cannons and stuff.. and STILL in most games this will result in an easy victory. Ok, a late victory in 1800 AD, but still a win. I am exaggerating a bit of course, but that's the direction it goes. No problem. But in isolation, no chance.
Again, this is not genious stuff, but I wish someone just told me this a few weeks ago. If someone asked me now how to beat Deity Isolation and I had only two sentences to answer, I would go with the points 1) and 2). It's not complicated advice, but would probably improve the winrate of every player who didn't quite consciously realize or appreciate it yet. Yeah there are certainly special circumstances and it's wrong to confine the variety of this game in such dumbed down advice. There are finer details to consider. But this simple revelation alone will bump my win rate from 25% to 75%, I am absolutely sure of that. Upgrades are non-optional and game breaking. Start building early enough. Then there are all the nuances in the early game, emphasized city placement and everything, but that's another chapter. I mainly lost because of 1) and 2). Not because of a stupidly placed helper city.
Why is there no guide or something which points out these simple facts regarding Deity Isolation? What did Deity players do all those years? What kind of legacy is that? Why did I have to suffer through countless losses and heartache and have to figure this out in the most painful way?
But enough ranting, that's what this thread is for~. I played to 1500 AD, sadly not being able to incorporate my own revelations yet, since it hit me a lot later. @Pedro78 you gave me a push in the right direction with the Cuirs upgrade idea, so thanks a lot for that . Though it doesn't have to be Cuirs. Just upgrade anything and it should work. Will still finish this game so here is my update (^ example of a real wall of text btw )
Spoiler:
So I didn't spread out the build-up or plan for timely upgrades. As such, my first GM trade missioned in 1300 AD ... Note that I already have Steel and Rifling. Since more than a century, in fact. But my army was far from being ready...
Plan was to take out Cyrus, so I bribed Shaka on him a few turns before my own declaration. Hope Shaka takes care of his SoD for me. Little cheap tricks you depend on when you screw up your military build up. A puny SoD can already be the end of your dreams. Have to run to good old Shaka for help. Otherwise I would have lost most likely. Embarrassing stuff.
Here is my SoD, ready to pounce on Cyrus' weakened flank. I have quite a few Rifles with CR2. It's 1360 AD and my opponent is close to Infantry and Artillery.
Not sure if everyone knows this. I didn't for a long time. But putting Galleons into forts like this is pretty safe. Enemy ships can't take them out (that wasn't quite obvious to me for a while) and only a land unit could destroy them. Safe way to replenish troops on the other continent. Note how I have 2000+ gold and nothing to spend it on, lol. Whipping Macemen now for upgrades..... so sad.
I capture the first city and move SoD in front of his capital soon after. Cyrus' SoD took a city from Shaka and suffered heavy losses while doing so. I never had to deal with it.
Not many useful wonders. Notre Dame is nice though. Great Lighthouse will be obsolete soon, but I'll take it.
I never met much resistance. Also bribed Toku and Sury on Cyrus. Mehmed attacked Shaka and is dealing some serious damage to him.
Bribed Shaka to peace with Cyrus and took his former city from Cyrus' weakened hands. Had to mop up 3 or 4 injured units.
And after this Cyrus has enough. Nobody likes him. But I will take his capitulation and continue with Shaka I think. He is really weak and still ways off Infantry and Artillery. After that I will have 20+ cities and grind my way to an undeserved victory. Can be achieved while ignoring key game mechanics. Who knew?
Starting with the next game, I will destroy everything with the new found knowledge. I mean, not really new knowledge. But my perception changed completely. And AI will suffer because of that.
That's exactly how a workshop breakthrough should feel like.
I agree with most of the things you pointed out about war prep and optimizing your attack date, upgrades etc. But I think early-game development remains the key, and proper planning for cottages etc. is even more important. That's why I kinda disagree with this :
Reaching steel in 1100AD instead of 1200AD is even bigger a deal than properly planned war prep. I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, what you said about war prep is actually quite smart, but you kinda sound like "you can kinda wing the early game stuff, as long as you plan war properly". Of course a stupidly placed helper city won't reduce the number of troops you're able to pump out, but a smarter third city might eventually have yielded you 50 additional bpt by the time you get Astro.
A long build up to invasion does indeed look neat, but you gotta find a way to reduce the unit upkeep costs as much as possible, especially as you will be running Pacifism a lot.
About your game :
Spoiler:
- Why didn't you declare on Cyrus before you bribed Shaka on him? Giving him all these techs has put him much closer to Assembly Line / Railroad
- Why are you not in Theocracy??
- Why did you great-general a Rifleman instead of an explorer (or maybe a chariot)?
(This might sound like a lot of criticism, but it really isn't, I'm trying to improve my win rate just like you, and god knows I make stupid mistakes too )
There's a Boudica game I played over a month ago (at the time I still had time to play civ4 ), which was quite interesting (I lost, ofc ). If you agree, @Lain , it could be the next game on this thread. It might be a little hard, but I'm sure it is winnable with proper planning. I won't be able to (re)play it for a while, but will eventually get to it. Attached the starting save.
PS. You can upload videos at night when you aren't using your computer
1) Not sure. Wasn't ready to attack myself yet. But yeah, could have declared anyway.
2) Switched into Org Religion for 5 turns to whip Mausoleums, whip/draft/emancipation anger was pretty bad. Now back into Theo/Nationalism and get out the 2nd wave.
3) Just great general'd something that was available. Yup, a bit lazy.
Unit upkeep from earlier build up hurts a bit, but has to be managed somehow. Yeah that's the reason I never pre-built many units. "Upkeep will hurt". But actually, you can whip Macemen etc and not finish them. Just build War Elephants, Macemen, Pikemen, Musketmen, Trebs, Knights... and just keep them "finished" in the build order of the city, don't get out the actual unit if you know what I mean. Until later when you are ready for a quick Theo switch. No upkeep cost at all this way.
I really believe that a 1200 AD attack with preparation is better than hitting 1100 AD Steel and not have many units.
Early game is really important and I'm still not sure I understand everything there, but I always acknowledged how crucial it is. I looked there for improvements for a long time. Meanwhile, the upgrade + build up thing completely eluded me though, I just ignored that part. That's why it was so mindblowing. So now I really feel like I understood something.
But for example, if you play Tokugawa without marble/stone and have a huge island with 12+ cities, how quickly do you settle? Still no idea. Make sure Astro is coming and then add 5-6 cities in early ADs?
Sure, let's play your Boudi game next in a few weeks or so. Just maybe make sure that it's not possible to get contact before Optics. Or everyone will start trading techs and it's impossible to compare games. I had contact with Shaka 200 AD in this game (he sent workboat lol), but I just ignored him (didn't trade techs or anything) until I got Optics. For training purposes. Or maybe we play the Boudi game once you are back? Save it until then
Recovered for a few turns and now it's time to crush Shaka. He has no Infantry yet. And is really weak from multiple wars.
Trying to bait his SoD into the city where I could annihilate it next turn...
But he chose to move most of it into Cyrus' land, even better.
Apart from that, he has pretty much anything. My western stack can push forward easily.
Main stack will beeline his most important cities. He has great land. No wonders though.
Cyrus doing something useful and taking out Shaka a bit.
Not much resistance in uMgungundlovu either.
Possible problem: Joao declares on Mehmed and will roll over him most likely... Toku is only a peace-vassal by the way.
Cruel thing is, Mehmed's SoD is trapped in Shaka's land, so he can't even defend himself.
So I hurry up and take out Shaka's culture so Mehmed can rush back. Don't want him to capitulate here. At least not to someone else.
His capital falls and is ready to capitulate, but I will take a bit more for a better peace deal and reduce culture problems. I want to get Artillery from him...
Finally Mehmed is free to rush back.
Shaka capitulated, Toku broke free from Joao and joined Sury, who was bribed into against Mehmed . Not sure what to do now. Might declare on Joao and liberate Mehmed's cities. Have no interest in him capitulating. Artillery is in. Golden Age in a few turns. Reach Infantry and just outproduce them I think. Wanted to build Oxford but nah, screw that. Factories and stuff, then produce with a mix of whips and workshops. Don't need tanks or aircraft I don't think. Maybe Fighters.
Or let Joao capitulate him, which will lead to Toku and Sury hating him. So I will be able to take out Joao without intervention from his allies . He won't be going space any time soon.
Sury going culture, but he is small and should be weak enough.
I get your point about pre-building units and leaving them in the build order. I already knew about that strategy, though I never actually used it, you don't need it in most games anyways, eh? That's definitely a smart move when isolated, you have to be very careful with the whip overflows to avoid decay, though. I mean, you need to whip with enough overflow to still be able to complete the unit in 1 turn when you reach the key tech. Timing your overflow also means you cannot pre-whip your troops with too much overflow as you don't want to waist overflow.
I think the sweet spot (when teching Steel + MS) would be :
Pre-whip Mace + Pike + Cat + Treb, complete the Cat with 4T to Steel, then Pike with 3T left, Mace with 2T left and Treb with 1T left, while pillaging your iron on the same turn. You time everything to have 80h overflow from the Treb, rebuild the iron mine on the turn you get steel and manage to get the 20 remaining hammers from worked tiles to complete the cannon on the next turn. If you manage to do that in six cities, this gives you 18 Cannons on the turn after you get Steel (and eventually some nice CR2 grenadiers). In the cities where you can't get 20h from tiles, you can just whip a Frigate, which will allow for the necessary 100h overflow (as long as you need Frigates ofc , and you can't pillage your iron anymore...)
Such an attack would be SOO elegant . Plus upgrading 6 trebs + 6 cats only costs you 1500, plus another 1500 to upgrade the other guys. And that's a big enough stack to get you rolling, as long as you don't attack in the 1400s
I think I would aim to have at least granary + forge + lighthouse (if coastal) in every city before Astro, not sure if it's doable with every map, though. If you have room for 12+ cities on your island, winning shouldn't be a problem anyways lol. My concerns are more about the early expansion, and all the micro stuff.
The reason why I suggested that Boudica game is that it basically removes everything that could make your game easier / that you could take advantage of in the Willem and Gandhi games, would be a good map to develop a bulletproof strategy. It's not THAT hard, but it's... different ^^. As I said I've already played it, retired in 1000AD because I felt I wasn't going anywhere. So feel free to play it without me, I won't be back playing civ4 for real before a month at least. Oh and you're not gonna meet anyone before Optics on this one (unless you meet someone's Caravel of course ).
Looks like you won this game, eventually ^^
Spoiler:
You can probably win space before Sury wins culture, but going for domination/conquest would be even faster here. You're guarding most conquered cities (even from Cyrus) with Riflemen. I would build a bunch of chariots to free them up (don't trade for MT ).
Looks like you have 55 rifles and 35 cannons left, i.e. 12.000 if you upgrade everything to Artillery/Infantry. The best way is probably to get to Assembly line and stop research, as the AI aren't close to any major tech (mech infantry or modern armor). Build factories + coal plants everywhere and get ready for the final push. Then upgrade all your troops and switch to US or PS depending on how bad the war weariness is. You might want to get Rocketry for a couple of SAMs to defend against airstrikes. (I'm not an expert of modern era wars by any means, so that's just a few thoughts ). Of course tanks + nukes would be waay faster, but wouldn't that ruin a hardly earned victory?
By the way, what do you think about tanks + bombers compared to Infantry + Artillery, are the former only faster, or can they also be more powerful? I mean, don't your bombers always get shot down by the AI anyways?
Tanks + Bombers is probably the fastest... if your target doesn't have aircraft yet. But if that's the case you already won anyway. I have a lot of trust in Tanks+Fighters+Bombers. You can take out absolutely everything with that. Modern Armor, Gunships, doesn't matter (some SAM Infantry for stack defense are nice in that case though). Once you reach a critical number of Fighters, you can overwhelm their defenses and use up their "interceptions". After that, send in Bombers for serious collateral damage. Tanks get winning odds vs Modern Armor, no problemo. Just need tons of production. But often you have a situation like: 25 city empire, technologically behind vs 15 city AI close to space. That's no problem. If your enemy has more cities AND better tech AND close to winning, you are probably screwed anyway.
Curious about the Boudica game, but I will play something else first. And I think some people want to finish the Gandhi game here aswell, so there won't be a new round for a few weeks or so. Now I can just watch a bit and make some comments, for example @Pangaea is on holidays right now so will continue I hope . I might play some other isolation stuff myself to practice.
You make a lot of interesting points about build up, micro etc. Will probably be easier to discuss that with a concrete example though. I will think about it some more for the next time.
As for my game, I won in 1655 AD.
Spoiler:
I found a solution for the Mehmed capitulation problem. Bribed everyone off him with Artillery. Switched Sury out of Free Speech, so good luck with your culture race buddy.
Sury builds the UN. Suddenly UN victory is on the horizon. Joao likes me more and will give his votes.
No AP cheese this time. I gift a jewish missionary to Shaka (Theocracy), so no random spread of Buddhism to his empire. Just take the option out of the game.
Just in case I won't have enough votes or something goes wrong, I will quickly capitulate Mehmed. Bribed Sury on him aswell because otherwise Mehmed could bribe Sury on me with Combustion, unnecessary stress.
Nice of Mehmed to use his SoD against Sury and not me. Will be a cakewalk.
Sury takes 2 cities, but so do I and get his capitulation first. It wouldn't have mattered anyway though. Meanwhile I settled more cities and grew everything for more votes.
Easy UN victory, but I could have built up and grinded to a Domi victory aswell. So I don't have a bad conscience about it. And by now I am kind of sick of this map
Will try to win for real next time with the first try, no replays and such. If I can win with so many mistakes, I should destroy stuff with the new "knowledge".
Congrats on your game! Wasn't an easy map, the maps where you are isolated and everyone else is on a single continent are dangerous, as there is a high risk of a religious love fest, which thankfully didn't happen here.
Yup I will definitely test out that micro stuff as soon as I have time to do it.
Could you elaborate on tanks + bombers? As far as I know cities can only hold 4 air units at a time (or 8 with an airport). Therefore, even in the case where you have 5 cities (20 aircrafts) in bombardment range, how can you deal enough collateral damage for tanks to get 50%+ odds against modern armor / mech infantry? Plus your tanks get bombarded quite often, so how can it be better than Infantry + Artillery + SAM? I am certainly missing something.
@Pangaea yup I forgot to put many things in spoiler, will edit now, sorry about that
You can build forts along the borders and put bombers into it. Need to be protected of course. Worker micro can be important in late wars so automating workers is never really an option. Unless you already won anyway. Wouldn't go with Tanks+Bombers only though, Fighters are key. Airships can be upgraded to Fighters (pretty sure about that), so can prepare that while you wait for Flight.
Also, Fighters can be put on Carriers (and the Carriers stay in a city), so the 4 (8) spots in a city can be reserved for Bombers. I'd say 16 Fighters+8 Bombers are enough to declare. Will need to replenish Fighters though, they will die (like normal siege). Fighters bombard city culture (and use up interceptions). After that Bombers for collateral damage (air strike). Do this for 2-3 turns and then send in land army. After you take out the first city (and probably most of his aircraft), you get a snowball effect and roll over him.
When you are back I can upload some saves if you want to practice that kind of war .
Edit: In my Deity-series (part 2, with Lincoln) I won with 26 vs 24 city Genghis Khan who had millions of troops. Completely wiped him out. Still have the save of that Was tedious, but since then I feel I can win every late war no matter what.
I've read your deity series. The Lincoln one looked really painful. I don't understand why you kept whipping until almost the end game, though. With late game infrastructure/tile improvement, most cities can build 2-3 turns tanks, so whipping really doesen't bring much (unless in crappy coastal cities ofc). I usually grow my cities and switch to US for the last push (although war weariness might become a problem). I'm still not convinced by tanks + planes over Infantry + Artillery, will definitely have to try this out .
Since I was gone for Easter, figured I'd make a quick update from 1AD and currently 225AD, with a question about progress as well.
Spoiler:
Teched Literature and in 1AD, working on Metal Casting. Only 111 , which isn't much, but then isolation is tricky (technically I have made contact, but in terms of beakers there is no difference, except +1 on the one trade route due to Cyrus settling on 'my' island).
Managed to put some hammers and the odd chop into Parthenon/Great Library before they went elsewhere. It got us maybe 400 , which helped on MC and Compass. Have put some hammers into NE too, and as it's not needed for the 5-6 GS, I should probably put some more hammers into it. Think I'll complete it in the capital actually.
In the below screenshot I'm bulbing Machinery. Full pelt on Optics after that, the 2nd free GS comes in T131, which is good timing with double-bulbing Astro (Optics done the turn before).
One thing of interest I noticed was that Cyrus lost a city, then regained it. Clearly he's in a war, and I also saw his strength took a bit of a dive. I've got nothing so far, besides MP and a few spawn busters. However, with Astro not far off, should I start building crossbows for instance? Or is warfare asap after Astro not realistic?
On another side note, GGs are popping out left, right and centre. It's totally nuts. Up to 16 now!
Haven't even built a barracks yet, and need plenty of infra, like some more lighthouses, and forges everywhere. Have also restricted expansion to 6 cities. Can get 3 more cities on the island without founding utter crap: sheep-fish SW, sheep N, and fish SE. Working a decent amount of cottages (two towns), but many are not well-developed yet, and non-riverside.
Essentially, what's the way forward from here?
Update from 580AD. Met/know about the other AIs.
Spoiler:
Bulbed Astro T131, half-teched and then traded for CS, and got Paper. Because Cyrus was doing Astro anyway (poor trades), I gave him that for Theo+world map, meaning I basically know the world, and should get circumnavigation next turn.
Can hopefully get Feudalism for Philo next turn. Engineering would be nice, one way or another, but can't imagine Cyrus is willing to trade it yet.
I'm kinda thinking Cuirs on Cyrus to be honest -- or would it be too deep in the tree and too slow? I'm far from ready for war in any case, but if it's possible to win Lib, maybe Cuirs would be okay.
You are in a good position I'd say. There needs to be some decisive action eventually though, otherwise the tech lead will evaporate rather sooner than later. If Cuirs are your weapon of choice, I'm not sure about settling Madras. Ok it's making a profit due to Astro trade routes (until Mercantilism hits at least), but the settler was rather expensive and the hammers could have went into more important infrastructure. Or into pre-building a few units.
Not sure about some of the resource trades. The wheat would have been useful to keep.
You were probably running Caste System for a while, but more whips with the spiritual trait could have been worthwhile. Agra really needs the Lighthouse right now and should probably have more stuff by now (Harbor?). It could already be building Horse Archers maybe. The lighthouse in the capital was mentioned. Varanasi could whip a missionary into the forge. Failgold from National Epic is nice, but getting the wonder in the early ADs might have been more valuable. With the nice early Astro date gold income won't be much of a problem. An Education bulb right about now while you tech Nationalism (Lib MT?) would be great. Some of the cottages around Vija and Varanasi should probably be replaced with farms. Trade routes and Bureau capital should carry you for a while, so a 1c or 2c tile won't contribute too much. Especially for a Cuirs attack. So probably whip them away.
I'm not much of an expert on naval Cuirs attacks, but maybe you could be ready by 1000 AD. Maybe plan for some upgrades? Not too many Galleons are needed since units can be ferried over in one turn, that's a big advantage. Infrastructure is not prepared yet, but you don't need much apart from Forges, probably Harbors and Barracks. Should be possible.
If going for Cuirs, some careful planning for a possible Golden Age + Great Merchant farming should be done. National Epic needs to be finished as soon as possible, I think.
Curious to see how a Cuirs attack plays out here, since I don't do those too often in such circumstances. Think you can pull it off though .
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). Next city is probably the fish + sheep spot. I will probably pause Aesthetics and go for Sailing (and AH, maybe) first. I don't think I'll build an Academy before Astro here.
)
. I Definitely agree about Oxford. Well, I get cheap universities so I considered it. But return on invest for something like Steel comes too late. By the time I build Oxford I would have already reached Steel anyway.
assuming that you can trade for gunpowder + engi), if you manage to trade (or part-trade) for Nationalism, you only have to self-tech MT, which is 3300
), which was quite interesting (I lost, ofc 
, plus another 1500
on the one trade route due to Cyrus settling on 'my' island).
