Deity Isolation Workshop (Stan/Norm/Fractal/NH/NE)

[dutchfire]

@Pangaea:

Spoiler :

I reckon barb defence will be tricky here, since there's quite a lot of land.
AH for only +2 food (compared to pig farm) seems like a small return. Depends a bit on how quickly you expect to get the sheep gold city as well, I suppose. And on if there are horses which would help the barb situation.
Sheep-gold-oasis and fish-floodplain-gold both look like good early cities, which might reduce the attractiveness of any early wonder plans.

 

[Pangaea]

Played a little further, to T60.

Spoiler :

Since I saw a few AH resources around, decided to tech AH next (after Agri). Settling NW turned out to be a rather good decision, when Horses popped up I did get into some trouble when a warrior and archer invaded simultaneously, but thankfully a chariot got back to the capital in time. He died to the twin attack, but next turn the surviving warrior attacked the capital guarded by a warrior, and thankfully lost (at 0.7% odds). Needed to postpone settling the third city as well, because a stupid barb archer somehow managed to beat my fully fortified Cover warrior on a forested hill (at 11% odds). An almost fully healed chariot took him out two turns later, but I really dislike early setbacks like this.

However, by turn 60 the situation is under control. Entire island (which isn't very large) is fogbusted, and I have 3 cities, with access to Horses and soon Copper, plus Stone in the near future.

Spoiler :

Have tentatively queued another settler in the capital, and may plop him down SE of the gold. That means the copper city won't need a monument, and I can get by with one in this new 4th city, which can then grab pigs+fish. Actually, probably still need a monument in Tokyo, for both floodplains. Osaka would only get one. Hope there is seafood for the silver city, but I've not revealed the coast yet. Chariot almost died to an archer. Nothing in the south either, although the mountains blocks a little bit of view (but there is probably nothing). A city can take pigs though, for instance SW of floodplains. Can get 2-4, more cities - though I'm not sure how many maintenance will allow. It's pretty brutal on Deity, and in the other recent games you have got by with very few cities.

3 workers and the new one in the capital has started to cottage. I'm thinking to get Masonry next and hope Mids is possible. Probably isn't, but maybe I can get some failgold at least.

Unusual, but a Shrine was built before any Wonders. That means Egypt is in the game. Stonehenge and Great Wall has gone.

Wish the island had more forests, but it is what it is. At least there are some floodplains dotted around, two happies, and enough food. I'm not good enough to take proper advantage of it, but I'm sure Rusten or Lain or the other experts can win this map.

 

[lindsay40k]

@Pangaea

Spoiler :

Fingers crossed on Mids, with all the gold I'd be inclined to forget about cottages for now and get roads to stone ready and forests pre-chopped. But yeah, with an early Barb incursion it's likely out of reach

If there's no food for Silvershima, what about sharing Kyoto's Fish then stealing it once that city is established? Grassland Copper & FP Cottages can feed Grassland Cottages until it hits happy cap, then just run the Gold or Plains Cottages. Though hopefully you'll find some juicy Clams

 

[Lain]

Almost got wrecked here. Update to T50 (2000 BC).

Spoiler :

I also settled 1 NW. Partly due to my own strategic considerations (1%), but mainly because of Rusten's advice (99%). And there is stone in the BFC. Oh happy days.



Warrior made his way towards the south-east, since I wanted to explore that river (probable 2nd city location). Didn't really push out further, just happy to survive for now.

Decided to go Mining after Agriculture. Worker needs something to do, I want to build warriors and I also had a cheeky idea of some kind...



Does this screenshot give it away?



YES, I decided to go all out balls to the (great) walls. All out Tokugawa RPG style. (Masonry after Mining!). At the very least some decent failgold, I want the Pyramids and 1f4h is a pretty sick tile in the early game. So I think it makes sense to hook that up.

Some nerve-wrecking turns ensued. I know why I never do this crap. Squeezing out every hammer to get it done... uhm I hope I didn't work a citizen like the screenshot suggests. Fail... BUT anyway, moving on...



Teching Bronze Working. To speed up expansion no matter how this turns out. However, barbs are knocking at the door... but the Great Japanese Empire prevails.





Well, I probably would have survived either way with 2 warriors sitting in the capital. 100+ gold at this stage of the game is a good consolation prize. But absolutely chuffed having pulled this off. I feel this will be a good game.

After Bronze Working I decided to go for Animal Husbandry. It was a toss-up between that and Pottery, but this beautiful 2nd city swayed my mind... 1) There is sheep and pigs to improve now 2) Priority lies on hammers right now, with me wanting Pyramids and all that 3) Gold tile will take care of research for now

Perks of having TGW ... can just settle this and those ghost train cashiers are carted outside immediately. Switched into Slavery aswell.





Capital whipped a worker (5 -> 3 ... was that a good idea? Think it was. Whipped away a grassland mine, but also an unimproved pig tile), overflow will probably go into Pyramids. Or settler, but I don't think I want to fool around here. This thing has to be up and running by 1500 BC. Otherwise heads will roll... or, more precisely, guts will slip out I suppose.



Worker #1 hooked up my 2nd city. It's growing on oasis to size 2. Will then work the gold which is being improved right now.
Worker #2 will commence chopping those Pyramids.



Going well so far. 3rd city will be placed on the river, using capital's pigs.

Securing Pyramids would also mean that we can skip the whole Monarchy line.

 

[sampsa]

@Lain

Spoiler :

GW in isolation? That is some Toku-style play indeed. I understand that it's cheap with stone, but still.

 

[Lain]

@sampsa

Spoiler :

Isolation is almost the only scenario I ever get to build it in. If there are neighbours I am usually too busy grabbing land. The spy pollution is not ideal, but oh well. It's good to eliminate barbs from the equation.

I did it because I saw that any new cities I'd like to settle would be unprotected. In retrospect the island is not exactly huge and easy to fogbust, but it's hard to judge that on T20 when I made the decision. And I didn't know about strategic resources. But yeah still questionable I guess.

@Pangaea

Spoiler :

Good job on the fogbusting and taking control of the island this early. Nice expansion aswell. Came at the price of neglecting the stone. It's getting a bit late for Pyramids, but some failgold would be useful aswell.

What is the long term plan? I'd suggest Monarchy and then Optics beeline. 2x scientists for Astronomy while skipping academy. Or with academy if you can get 3 by 600 AD or so.

I thought about it for a while and I'm still not sure if I will settle Copper/Fish like you did or grab the 2x floodplains + gold tile immediately. Like, if it was a 2nd city, the copper would be amazing to help with units, workboats and stuff. But there is not much health to be had, so fresh water becomes more important I think. 2x FP > Fish for me, but the copper makes it more complicated to assess. Still think I'll go for 2x FP/Gold.

But I think pigs should be grabbed in 1st ring. Even at the cost of ruining the forest. Just too good a tile to neglect until a monument kicks in.

I secured TGW and Pyramids by 1500 BC or so. But it seriously delayed my expansion mojo. Feels so wrong to sit on 3 cities at 1000 BC. With no buildings in any of them.

 

[sampsa]

@Lain

Spoiler :

Yeh I mean it's certainly useful to completely eliminate barb threat, but how are you planning to manage ? The only useful thing a GSpy can do here is a golden age. Maybe with some planning you can pop it as like your 3rd/4th ?

 

[Lain]

@sampsa

Spoiler :

Since I got the Pyramids aswell (update later) I am pretty screwed now... well, a settled GSpy with Rep gives +6 beakers, so I have that going for me I suppose...

Caste System will be a priority to run 4-5 scientists in other cities.

 

[Pangaea]

@Lain

Spoiler :

Always find it interesting what a different game it turns into just by the warrior going in different directions. I considered where to move him for a minute or two, then decided to go north. Well, they're not very different after all I suppose, we settled both cities in the exact same spot

Probably too late for Mids for me. Maybe I should have played a little differently, and oddly for me, I felt like I rushed things a bit and played a little sloppily with micro. Good shout @lindsay40k to ignore the cottage(s) and hook up the stone instead. At least I can get more failgold that way. Doubt I'm lucky enough to actually get Mids.

Lain has that, which offers the advantage of Rep and very productive scientists right away. Perhaps not as relatively strong here as they otherwise might be, since we have some good tiles (gold, silver) and green rivers+3 floodplains.

For me, I need to get out another city or two, but before then probably go balls to the walls with Mids, and pray to Cthulhu we can get it. Then I need to think about getting 2-3 GS for the Astro line. Have only played one of these games so far, so don't have the strategy "down" as well as you guys. But I shall try

Was a Shrine built super-duper early in your game too, btw? Have never seen one get built so early. It was erected in 2480BC or thereabouts.

 

[Fippy]

Are those spoilers really needed

Great Wall is usually great in Iso, maybe unless it's such a small map that barbs are no topic anyways.
1 Gspy is totally fine, first GA is ideally used before AI contact for Caste switch & farming some GP points.
Academy i rarely built (while still alone) when playing Iso, so a GS actually has no advantages over Gspy first for GA.

GE also fine (Machinery), 2nd Gspy gets annoying but the chances should be only ~20% from the great wall city if it's monitored well.
Ideally some (or all) Cap food gets shared after a while and it's mainly running cottages for Bur later, those new city(ies) can produce a GS instead of risking more spies.
One of the main uses of that GA can be those cities needing no library, with hopefully running ~4 scientists for 24 points / turn during your GA.

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

Sure, I understand why golden ages are good but was just "worried" about 1st being a GSpy. I guess it's no biggie to let him sleep for 1000 years. Agree that the main function of GW can be most useful in isolation. Kinda unlucky that on this map spawn busting happens to be so easy.

 

[Pangaea]

So... is it okay to write outside of spoilers or will it ruin it for Rusten and others?

Spoiler :

Arse! I tried, but only got halfway Mids built in 1080BC, which is probably on the late side anyhow. Did it as fast as I could from where I was. Hooked up stone with two workers asap, with max OF into Mids on the same turn it was hooked up. Got 242 into it, with another chop next turn. Would have hurt more if I was 1-2 turns short though.

Am I right in thinking it's best to stay at 4 cities, or should I get out at least one more? Really don't want to settle on that pigs forest, would like to chop it into a monument, but I guess it's the right move. Grow to 2 and whip it instead. The far east will be too expensive I suppose, and sadly no food up north. Silver city can steal the fish, but other than grabbing silver it's not good for nothing.

Lain, with the talk of settling the copper-fish riverside, keep in mind that will ruin the pig-fish south.

 

[Pedro78]

So... is it okay to write outside of spoilers or will it ruin it for Rusten and others?

I'll only start in a couple of days (need to warm up first ), so keeping all spoilering information in spoilers would be nice ^^

 

[Pedro78]

My "warm-up" game turned out to be quite a weird one. Island with very good commerce but room for only 4 decent cities so troop production will be a major issue.

@Rusten what do you think about that? Would you feel confident winning that game? If so, how?

 

[Rusten]

@Pedro78 There's easily room for 5 cities there (6 is usually max in isolation). Umgungundlovu can share the sheep and river tiles with a city to its north (and loan FPs from Ulundi at when fitting) and a fishing village can be settled to the north closer to optics. Could even consider a 6th south of Ulundi at some point (and farm it).

It's a start where I'd beeline Astronomy though (and cottage). Little value in CoL for instance. Focus on having 2 GS by optics. Break out with vassalage (great with AGG as you get some really strong promotions at 5XP).

I'll wait a couple of days before playing this too.

 

[Pedro78]

Okay I'll try that and see how it works out

 

[Pedro78]

By the way in which cases would you attack with cuirassiers instead of cannons in isolation? Imagine you have very strong GPP production and can win lib, would you go cuirs instead of cannons in that case?

 

[Lain]

Tokugawa 1000 BC

Spoiler :

Found horses, meanwhile working on Pyramids to add to my wonder collection. Osaka will grow to size 3 after sheep are hooked up, but no time right now. It's all about chopping.



1520 BC the dream becomes reality. Just have to do something about expansion soon. Pottery is in, now on to Writing. Not like I have time for any buildings though. Hope our scientists discover sewer systems any time soon. Because the (GPP) pollution will be bad. Ba-dumm, tss..



Osaka can finally grow. Commerce is the least of my problems right now. Chop(s) go into settler.



Tokyo adds to the empire, taking the pig. Whipped 3rd worker into another settler. Cities #4 and #5 are coming shortly. #6 to follow a bit later.



Great Spy or Great Engineer next turn. What to do with him?

Would you really save a Great Spy for 1000+ years, @Fippy? Settling him gives 6 beakers with Rep, that's decent no?

 

[Fippy]

Lain

Spoiler :

You can also use your probable Spy for scouting & maybe keeping a city spot safe from barbs meanwhile, saves you warrior costs for that and should give you the whole map. I really would not even think about settling him That GA will be invaluable.
Consider him a bonus where it does not matter in what year you use him, you got him without doing something.

Not sure about 1000y, i always use rounds as years are heavily flawed by the decreasing intervals.
Anyways CoL should be your beeline now ofc.

Imo you settled Tokyo not optimal, and i would suggest you re-play that (looks like it was done just recently).
Settle where you built that cottage for corn & pigs.
It's a potential super-gp farm this way with no swer system needed , and Kyoto can take 1 food until all the important cottages can be worked.

 

[Lain]

Fippy

Spoiler :

Ok that makes a lot of sense actually. I will try that, thanks

Random question: Would you whip capital in a situation like this (I did worker 5 -> 3)? No granary, good production... but felt like I need worker/settler a few turns quicker because I am so far behind with expansion.