Design: Religions

How about a Nomad unit for the Malakim? 0 strength and 1 movement. Only ability is that they create an Encampment on whatever desert tile they stand on. This works sort of like a cottage in reverse, giving a good cash bonus and perhaps a bit of food, and then have it degenerate until they move to another desert square. They can't make an Encampment on the same square twice, so they have to travel around a lot, visiting different cities with their bonuses. They should probably be national units(limited to 3).
 
Good idea, but would another Nomad be able to make a encampment on a tile where other Nomad alredy did one ?

Probably not, I haven't really thought it all the way through, it's mostly a concept idea. I don't know how it would be affected by using Spring and Scorch in succession on a desert tile to create a "new" desert tile either.
 
Sounds like using nomads to build encampments would be a bit tedious if they kept on degenerating. Might be too much micromanagement.

Well, I imagined that you wouldn't actually need to build them, they'd just appear whenever a Nomad stood on a square within a city fat cross, and disappear the instant they move again. Or perhaps they could be commanded to "make camp" on a square and then control of the unit would be automatically regained once the Encampment's "burned out". Then it wouldn't really be any more tedious than setting a worker to spend a number of turns building an improvement.
 
Would the nomad be trapped on the square where he's built his encampment until it completely burned out? I'm worried that you'd be stuck with a mediocre tile to work until the encampment burned out.

I guess my biggest issue with this is that it doesn't have a lot of "drool factor" as they say. Sure it's interesting, sure it's fun, but it's not quite as "cool" as having your vampires feast on the townsfolk, or having a few gigantic metropolises from which you run your empire, or actually being at peace with the barbs. Then again, it's not my place to say what can or can't be in the game. If it's deemed to be the Malakim's unique thing, I'll still go with it.
 
Chandrasekhar said:
The problem with requiring deserts to have fresh water before they can be changed to plains is that many fresh water desert tiles are flood plains anyway. Still, it might be a nice limiting idea. And, it could stack with our ideas for making Malakim deserts more productive.

About the deserts not being productive in real life, keep in mind that if these Malakim have the blessings of the Sun god, and if they have a magical affinity for deserts, they'd probably be able to coax something out of it. Also keep in mind that FfH is supposed to be fun and flavorful, so anything that will promote those goals is good.

True, Fantasy, Fun are priority. But I think our desert friends would lose some of their "Feel" if the desert was full of improvements, and roads, and looked merely like a slightly redish tile variant as opposed to the more lush lands.

I'm cool with them getting a special resource, maybe they have a starting tech that reveals some special resource in deserets, and its only revealed to them. Still it should be rare. The desert on the map should look like a (if its got decent size) vast desolate expance.....nigh impossible to cross.

Perhaps the Sun God is the only reason that these people can cross the desert unscathed, blessings from a God whom would otherwise shrivel mortals to a crisp in those lands. I just dont like the idea of desert clutter. But I do see the "magical coolness" your talking about. MAYBE Deserts serve like free roads to the Desert peoples? And are nigh incrossible to others? Mobility is a definate resource.

-QES
 
Corlindale said:
How about a Nomad unit for the Malakim? 0 strength and 1 movement. Only ability is that they create an Encampment on whatever desert tile they stand on. This works sort of like a cottage in reverse, giving a good cash bonus and perhaps a bit of food, and then have it degenerate until they move to another desert square. They can't make an Encampment on the same square twice, so they have to travel around a lot, visiting different cities with their bonuses. They should probably be national units(limited to 3).

Clever, but a bit micromanagy. What about old "colonies" from Civ 3? Give them a Caravan unit that can go out beyond and claim resources outside of territory? In desert of course.
 
Perhaps deserts having a base movement cost of 2 and a negative healing promotion, so that it's generally smarter to avoid them. The oasis, of course, wouldn't have the negative healing promotion.

And keep in mind that if there are improvements for Malakim deserts, that they would have a small, lonely look about them, so the idea about deserts being inhospitable would still be established. The Malakim would just be unique in being able to live there.
 
Chandrasekhar said:
Perhaps deserts having a base movement cost of 2 and a negative healing promotion, so that it's generally smarter to avoid them. The oasis, of course, wouldn't have the negative healing promotion.

And keep in mind that if there are improvements for Malakim deserts, that they would have a small, lonely look about them, so the idea about deserts being inhospitable would still be established. The Malakim would just be unique in being able to live there.

Maybe Impassible to Settlers and Workers, and a negative health bonus to all other units. Enough to make you not want to wander a military across, but as to the "fraile" nature of non-combat units, they're simply denied. The Malakim would then have more mobility and choice early game. Better yet, have some technology that would grant the ability to move over desert and give it to the Malakim right away. Deserts, Like Peaks should be natural barriers that are worked around.

I imagine putting away in my little garden, enjoying some tea, when a troublesome cloud rises on the hills outside my proud city. I thought that was impassable! It'd be cool, could also be a Caravan for trade, to connect me to the rest of the world. The Caravan unit could be a special unit that can travel across desert, make roads, and maybe even function as a minor "great merchant".

-Qes
 
About caravans, I do miss the ones from CivII that would allow you to establish trade routes with instant cash revenue (Great Merchant-like) and would help building wonders. Might want to skip the latter, but the former DOES cope well with what was said before about IRL desert civs being focused on trade.

I also like the idea of making deserts impassable, or at least a pain to get through. Increasing desert movement cost would have the nice side effect of actually forcing most units to stop in desert tiles instead of simply crossing them, which in turn would encourage players to use mounted units to cross them (and that too fits well with the IRL desert scheme).

Another thought : make desert hills special... maybe add a "Dune" improvement that would give the Malakim some strategic effect (eg. hiding units, strengh bonus when attacking from or something like that). Together with a hill-raising spell, this would allow them to build "desert walls" to make their borders virtually imprenable. (anyway, just renaming "desert hills" du "dunes" would already add great flavor IMO :goodjob:)
 
With thaat possiblity of an Evil Sun or even a good one I suppose the idea of modifying deserts is not that farj-fetched.....the Ljosalfar with Fellowship of Leaves have Ancient Forest right? Why not a Great Desert Tile change with benefits for those of the religion and Sandstorms that show up to protect against invaders.
 
H.GrenadeFrenzy said:
With thaat possiblity of an Evil Sun or even a good one I suppose the idea of modifying deserts is not that farj-fetched.....the Ljosalfar with Fellowship of Leaves have Ancient Forest right? Why not a Great Desert Tile change with benefits for those of the religion and Sandstorms that show up to protect against invaders.

We want to be careful to not simply repeat a gimic because it works. Kael expressly said that each "difference' should in fact be that, not merely a clone or repetition of a game mechanic cause it works, even in "thematic" senses.

Desert Hills are Hills of desert, not dunes persay. I think regular desert squares are "dunish". But if they are a pain to cross militarily, and perhaps not crossible at all by non-combat units, it provides a unique flavor, without actually repeating any other game mechanic i can think of, save for peaks, but peaks are universal, instead of specific to civs. In this it would be inversely specific, in that only peoples that worshiped the sun, or had links directly to them, would in fact be able to cross deserts with non combat units.....which means NO roads on desert squares unless your desert peoples too, since workers wont be able to help.

-Qes
 
I've enjoyed playing FFH2 much and I think lively discusions taking place are good.

I don't think another special terrain would be a good idea, because it would eventualy end with every religion getting some special terrain, leaves are quite special in their unity with nature. On the other side others are focused on people (wisdom, law, etc.).

I prefer the idea with negative healing & unit bonuses.
It would be nice to have a mapscript placing civs according to their alingments. e.g Doviello near poles, Curtoriates in temperate coastal areas with a lot of non-military resources, Elves in forests, Khazad in hills and Malakim with capital city area consisting of plains(savanas)/flood plains encircled by two tiles desert making it legendary city hidden in deserts (like Timbuktu).
I hope this isn't too much off topic.
 
TheBoatman said:
I've enjoyed playing FFH2 much and I think lively discusions taking place are good.

I don't think another special terrain would be a good idea, because it would eventualy end with every religion getting some special terrain, leaves are quite special in their unity with nature. On the other side others are focused on people (wisdom, law, etc.).

I prefer the idea with negative healing & unit bonuses.
It would be nice to have a mapscript placing civs according to their alingments. e.g Doviello near poles, Curtoriates in temperate coastal areas with a lot of non-military resources, Elves in forests, Khazad in hills and Malakim with capital city area consisting of plains(savanas)/flood plains encircled by two tiles desert making it legendary city hidden in deserts (like Timbuktu).
I hope this isn't too much off topic.

Ya theres a whole thread on that. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=178192
-Qes
 
QES said:
We want to be careful to not simply repeat a gimic because it works. Kael expressly said that each "difference' should in fact be that, not merely a clone or repetition of a game mechanic cause it works, even in "thematic" senses.
I can agree with that, but a Great Desert is still a good idea no matter what mechanic is used.
QES said:
Desert Hills are Hills of desert, not dunes persay. I think regular desert squares are "dunish". But if they are a pain to cross militarily, and perhaps not crossible at all by non-combat units, it provides a unique flavor, without actually repeating any other game mechanic i can think of, save for peaks, but peaks are universal, instead of specific to civs. In this it would be inversely specific, in that only peoples that worshiped the sun, or had links directly to them, would in fact be able to cross deserts with non combat units.....which means NO roads on desert squares unless your desert peoples too, since workers wont be able to help.
Sure, unique is what its all about........are you hunting me.:scared:
I am an options person with this approach: disguard 9 out of 10 things and use the one that fits......it any of the other 9 become useful later good....I as a cook have found scraps make great side dishes and soups if prepared accordingly.

-
 
H.GrenadeFrenzy said:
I can agree with that, but a Great Desert is still a good idea no matter what mechanic is used.

Sure, unique is what its all about........are you hunting me.:scared:
I am an options person with this approach: disguard 9 out of 10 things and use the one that fits......it any of the other 9 become useful later good....I as a cook have found scraps make great side dishes and soups if prepared accordingly.
-


I tend to be the same way, devoting most of my civ to a single "style" and maxing it. I like 10 options, but i oft, also only chose one or 2. If i'm forced to switch, i do so begrudingly.

And I'll only hunt you in so far as you'll be tasty after a good cooking. You're a cook-what would you eat you with?
-Qes
 
If desert movement type stuff is to be introduces, a custom map script will certainly be required to form vast expanses of desert that would creat the desired effects without creating too much desert in general.

re malakim: what about a little concept thievery from dune? they can have desert only improvements similar to towns that go from something like a camp to a shelter to a sietch giving 1f,1h, 1-3c (maybe 2f for sietch). with this they could actually have a thriving city that had mostly desert (or even all) desert tiles. and maybe a 'holy' warrior that can haste and/or dance of blades.
 
Top Bottom