Design: Religions

[Kael]

I updated the first post with the theme music for each of the religions, inlcuding the new theme for the Cult of the Dragon.

 

[TheJopa]

You said FfH world has 19 religions total. Mow, I suppose some of them are race-specific, like orc etc.

Its just a religion worshipping each of the 21 gods. In the D&D game the religion varied from country to country, so Bhall was worshipped by the Orcs as the goddess of slaughter but in Braduk she was still worshipped in her ancient aspect as the queen of light.

So that wouldn't translate very well into a civ4 model. I'' try to add a list of each of the gods so you can get a feel for each of them.

So what I thought is to make them 'pagan' religions. Basicaly race specific temples, gained by tech which allows pagan temples. As long as you stay in paganism and without state religion you would be able to build those temples (Only 1 per city and probably restriced by race) with each providing minor bonuses (from happiness and culture to minor xp boost)
Just something to consider for future versions, religon is good now, but this would add flavor and efficiency (Alowing clan of embers some pagan temples which are very efficient, giving you opportunity to stay in paganism for long and avoid religion rush, but leaving you weak later on? and so on...)

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I guess it might be nice for flavor if there was a Civ for each relgion that clearly benefitted from being that religion (but other Civs would work just fine in any religion).

Bannor-Order --- Perhaps some sort of super-Crusade ability?
Khazad-Runes --- Increased gold from mines, more chance of discovering resources?
Ljosalfar-Fellowship --- I think you've done plenty here.
Lanun-Overlords --- Octopus units that spawn to defend coastal cities, more gold from water tiles?
Infernals-Veil --- Some sort of research bonus to counter the BAR penalty? Early and easy access to Hell?

On a side note, I think Octopus Overlords is a fine name, if a bit cultish-sounding. I like the concept behind it (a god's dreams driving some demi-deific creatures insane).

On another side note (edit: not really), what if the Sun and Shadow worshippers alignments were switched? Perhaps the Sun religion could emphasize the Sun's merciless aspects, the way it destroys and desolates the unprotected lands it looks down upon, seeking to bring the world into an opposite crisis as the Age of Ice. The Shadow religion could emphasize the fact that darkness can be a sanctuary for those who wish to remain undesturbed and peaceful. This would also work as a pretext for another idea I thought I'd pose:

Almost-scripted alignment switches. Imagine the Malakim discovering an evil sun-worshipping religion, and suddenly going from Good to Evil. The balance of the continent they were on would be thrown into flux, and some very interesting events could happen. Imagine the Svartalfar discovering a good shadow revering religion, and the same thing happening. It would be a curveball flavor-wise, but I've always liked the idea of a Civ favoring a religion opposite its alignment. What do you think?

 

[AlazkanAssassin]

Suggestion:

Add an attack bonus (better yet, a defense reduction) when attacking citys with your state religion if it is not also theirs. Bonus scaled by what fraction the religion is in the city. [50% * 1/(#ofReligions) {50,25,17,13,10,8} ]
This would symbolize the help given to you by citizens who prefer you to their 'heathen' leaders.
This would turn religion into an active weapon to use in prepairing for a conquest. Send in a few missionarys to the border citys you have your eye on; but if you send in too many they may convert and you wouldn't get any bonus.

But don't give the bonus to scorched earth nations, as those in the city would know that they won't benefit when conquered even if they have the same religion.


Now, the agnostic would not benefit from this as is, but if it is wanted that they have this mechanic too, the bonus could work backwards for them. not requireing their state religion (obviouly) but when attacking a non-agnostic civ with a national religion they get a bonus for the small agnostic following present in the city. too many religions causes confusion and disillusionment in people. 0,1,2 religions= no bonus, 3=10%, 4=20%,5=30%,6=50%

 

[H.GrenadeFrenzy]

I guess it might be nice for flavor if there was a Civ for each relgion that clearly benefitted from being that religion (but other Civs would work just fine in any religion).

Bannor-Order --- Perhaps some sort of super-Crusade ability?
Khazad-Runes --- Increased gold from mines, more chance of discovering resources?
Ljosalfar-Fellowship --- I think you've done plenty here.
Lanun-Overlords --- Octopus units that spawn to defend coastal cities, more gold from water tiles?
Infernals-Veil --- Some sort of research bonus to counter the BAR penalty? Early and easy access to Hell?

On a side note, I think Octopus Overlords is a fine name, if a bit cultish-sounding. I like the concept behind it (a god's dreams driving some demi-deific creatures insane).

On another side note (edit: not really), what if the Sun and Shadow worshippers alignments were switched? Perhaps the Sun religion could emphasize the Sun's merciless aspects, the way it destroys and desolates the unprotected lands it looks down upon, seeking to bring the world into an opposite crisis as the Age of Ice. The Shadow religion could emphasize the fact that darkness can be a sanctuary for those who wish to remain undesturbed and peaceful. This would also work as a pretext for another idea I thought I'd pose:

Almost-scripted alignment switches. Imagine the Malakim discovering an evil sun-worshipping religion, and suddenly going from Good to Evil. The balance of the continent they were on would be thrown into flux, and some very interesting events could happen. Imagine the Svartalfar discovering a good shadow revering religion, and the same thing happening. It would be a curveball flavor-wise, but I've always liked the idea of a Civ favoring a religion opposite its alignment. What do you think?

Are you working for the Sci-Fi or Horror Film industry? I like the idea but ...could such a group benefit from deserts and produce specialized Cacti Farms and grow Giant Cacti Forests and we need really dangerous snakes too.....rattlers, mambas,sidewinders especially.......hey even the Cult of the Dragon could use snakes....and good Shadow.......a shasy oasis for rest and recuperation after a hot day in the feild....... Hey, potentially they could even be from the same Civ.......maybe without conflict within the civ.........

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Cacti forests... do you work for the Sci-Fi industry yourself? Maybe they could spawn cactus beasts D) like treants, and perhaps make deserts viable yield tiles. Heh, I love playing the Malakim, they're my favorite Civ.

Maybe some sort of a shadowed vale could show up in these good-shadow religion lands, with increased heal rate, invisibility, and maybe the ability to withdraw from an attack (like Loki) when they're resting there. I would hope that these religions wouldn't be restricted to the Malakim and Svartalfar, but they should probably only be able to be founded by them.

 

[H.GrenadeFrenzy]

Cacti forests... do you work for the Sci-Fi industry yourself? Maybe they could spawn cactus beasts D) like treants, and perhaps make deserts viable yield tiles. Heh, I love playing the Malakim, they're my favorite Civ.

Maybe some sort of a shadowed vale could show up in these good-shadow religion lands, with increased heal rate, invisibility, and maybe the ability to withdraw from an attack (like Loki) when they're resting there. I would hope that these religions wouldn't be restricted to the Malakim and Svartalfar, but they should probably only be able to be founded by them.

squeeze fruit...remove pulp or leave it........add ICE.........drink beverage or use it to sauce main dish .....I think its dinner time.......analogy.....i live through analogy.......the prigles can is your friend....get x-fire now!......damn hypogleicemic reactons!

I wasn't being sarcastic.....I've seen a star trek next generation that your suggestion reminds me of thats all...........and it looks like a pretty damn good idea too...........I've been broke down in the desert before and had to walk with little rations thank god for natives with believe it or not sweat lodges and of course water...........too much water will kill even faster than not enough in the heat....

and yes Cacti are on of the best sources of water in the desert and some cacti are delectible.....nice dish for the cook!

 

[H.GrenadeFrenzy]

Cacti forests... do you work for the Sci-Fi industry yourself? Maybe they could spawn cactus beasts D) like treants, and perhaps make deserts viable yield tiles. Heh, I love playing the Malakim, they're my favorite Civ.

Maybe some sort of a shadowed vale could show up in these good-shadow religion lands, with increased heal rate, invisibility, and maybe the ability to withdraw from an attack (like Loki) when they're resting there. I would hope that these religions wouldn't be restricted to the Malakim and Svartalfar, but they should probably only be able to be founded by them.

do you mean as imposters or just hiding out?

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Probably just hiding.

I look forward to whatever methods the team will devise for synergizing the Malakim and their deserts. Seems like the team will have the same dilemma here as they're probably facing with the dwarves and the elves: they want to make the Malakim strengthened by deserts, but they don't want their playstyle to only be good in deserts.

 

[H.GrenadeFrenzy]

Probably just hiding.

I look forward to whatever methods the team will devise for synergizing the Malakim and their deserts. Seems like the team will have the same dilemma here as they're probably facing with the dwarves and the elves: they want to make the Malakim strengthened by deserts, but they don't want their playstyle to only be good in deserts.

well improvements in deserts would give that 1st level fire a new use and a sandstorm spell too.....sandlions are cool but......there definitely needs to be alot more.......glass production maybe..........and units that can utilize such matterials.....

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Hmm... maybe a Malakim Hero that gets stronger the more desert tiles that there are in the world? Malakim adepts turning the world to desert in preparation for their Angel of light. Doesn't sound all that good, but an interesting mechanic.

 

[Bad Player]

Actually that sounds like an interesting mechanism that works with Bloom and the desert version of bloom (can't remember name). It would be cool if elves got bonuses for every forest in the world (or perhaps even a hero gets a bonus for every 10 forests in the world etc), malakim got a bonus for every desert in the world, Lanun got a bonus for every water tile in the world etc.

 

[Kael]

Sounds like an interesting Avatar power. Avatar of the god of nature would get bonus's based on the amount of forests, etc.

 

[Corlindale]

There could also be an evil avatar unit gaining a bonus for the number of defiled tiles in the world. Then the player would really have to work for its power, turning the world into a wasteland to make it near invincible.

 

[H.GrenadeFrenzy]

Does anybody think that there should be a least a religous spread to the influence area of the local city before the avatar can get power from there?

Otherwise avatars could get power where a few other deities claim sole power so........I guess what I am saying is the Spiral tower and inquisitions as well as throwing low level priests at others cities starts to make more sense so the avatar has a larger base of power and the other avatars powers are repressed or attempting a repression by civs with opposing beliefs......

Also liberal religion civic becomes double edged this way........and building temples for a little benefit could have disasterous side effects...

 

[Bad Player]

Seamo75's post in the main FFH2 thread suggested something similar to inspire this from me:

Religions can only be founded under specific circumstances. Fellowship of the Leaves requires that civ to have a forest in one of the empire squares in order to found it, similarly Runes of Kilmorph - hills, Octopus Overlords - sea/ocean/coast/lake. The Order, Ashen Veil, and Cult of the Dragon don't have these requirements.

 

[Kael]

Seamo75's post in the main FFH2 thread suggested something similar to inspire this from me:

Religions can only be founded under specific circumstances. Fellowship of the Leaves requires that civ to have a forest in one of the empire squares in order to found it, similarly Runes of Kilmorph - hills, Octopus Overlords - sea/ocean/coast/lake. The Order, Ashen Veil, and Cult of the Dragon don't have these requirements.

I actually liked sevos idea best of having great prophets found religions (faces of god mod). But I dont think it ended up being very fun.

Maybe someday each civ will just start with their own religion.

 

[ChaoticWanderer]

i always thought deserts should be farmable since desert farms do work with good irragation maybe allow the desert people the ability to create normal farms in deserts

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Hmm, the ability to have sandstorms (like treants) show up in deserts when threatened after researching a certain tech or building an improvement could be very interesting, for the Malakim or for FfH as a whole. Maybe there could be a glass resource that only the Malakim could see?

 

[Bad Player]

That would be useful for making ppl like deserts more (which might be a good thing!).