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[Development] Alternative Map during 1.17

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. TJDowling

    TJDowling King

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    Thoughts on reviewing the big map:

    Should we add pigs in Iberia? It seems to me that there are no pig resources in any lands that were ever ruled by Muslims but seems to me that Spain is well-known for it's ham.
    We should add Makrana marble in NW India. It was very important in construction of the Taj Mahal.
    Should Madeira have sugar to start? Isn't that introduced in the 1400s by European explorers? I think it should be a spawning resource. I guess one option would be to put cape around Madeira to prevent early access but I suspect that could be bypassed with strategic city placement.
    Also, why is there tea in Brazil?
    Should more gold be added to China?
     
  2. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Cultural borders are part of the scenarios, so I don't know what you are doing wrong.
     
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  3. Krieger-FS

    Krieger-FS Chieftain

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    Both the Tea in the Brazilian-Paraguayan border and the one in Argentine Mesopotamia represent the yerba mate and historical areas of major production.
     
  4. TJDowling

    TJDowling King

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    Interesting, they are significant enough historically to include? I only ask because I've never heard of any of this, lol.
     
  5. ozqar

    ozqar King

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    They're significant enough that you might get in trouble with our resident Argentinian (that's a correct guess on your nationality, right, @Krieger-FS?).

    But yeah, yerba mate is very culturally significant within the region, even if it's not a significant commodity worldwide.
     
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  6. Kewlipo

    Kewlipo Warlord

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  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Yeah, I only contributed feedback and placed them on the map. Credit for the new rainforest marsh type fully goes to merijn.
     
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  8. Krieger-FS

    Krieger-FS Chieftain

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    In global terms they probably weren't that important as already mentioned, but regionally they are, hence the inclusion. Yerba mate was and still is widely consumed in all Southern Cone both as a cold (called tereré) and hot (called mate in Spanish or chimarrão in Portuguese) beverage, including all Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, southern Bolivia and most of south and west Brazil, besides the communites of these South Americans overseas. It became a valuable export by 19th century, enough to be an additional reason to Brazil annex contested areas from Paraguay - then the main producer that sold it mainly to her neighbors and in minor scale to Britain - that were also very productive fields of yerba mate by the end of the War of the Triple Alliance (1864-1870). By early 20th century Argentina became the main producer, but Brazil slowly retook this position in the following decades.

    And actually I'm Brazilian, so consider that this wrong guess is what truly got you in trouble:lol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Mate is actually pretty popular in Germany as a carbonated drink as well.
     
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  10. TJDowling

    TJDowling King

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    Huh, guess it just hasn't gained traction where I'm from.
     
  11. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    'Mate' is also pretty popular in Australia.

    Think about that for a second.

    *Runs away*
     
  12. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Mate is also popular in ... wait for it ... Japan.
     
  13. hnrysml

    hnrysml Warlord

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    Blocked.
     
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  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I remember there is marble near Lahore on the current map, which didn't make its way to this one. Is there a marble source in Punjab as well, or was this a misplaced source of Makrana marble after all?
     
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  15. TJDowling

    TJDowling King

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    If I remember correctly, there is a stone on the new map in that general area. Marble would be better though. I suspect the marble on the current map is misplaced as I found no mention of major marble sources in South Asia outside Rajasthan.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  16. Dominus the Mentat

    Dominus the Mentat Chieftain

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    I think the marble near Lahore (which has been replaced by stone in the new map) represents the quarries in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, which accounts for at least 78% of the marble production in Pakistan. In the Rajasthan region (Which is close to Punjab), Makrana is regarded as the oldest place in India with a marble quarry and where came the blocks used in the construction of the Taj Mahal.
     
  17. MrFeline

    MrFeline Chieftain

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    Looking at Central Asia, shouldn't there be a way to pass in the West of the Taklamakan desert? Right now Kashgar is completely cut off from the Western Silk Road, which doesn't seem right, especially considering that there is a pass in the South, which seems less important than a Western one.
     
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  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    As on the current map, the pass along the Silk Route will open during the game. The map here represents the state of the world at 3000 BC.
     
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  19. Hightower

    Hightower Prince

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    Why is it that way? Especially with China spawning somewhat later now, there doesn't seem to be much advantage to having the pass closed early in history, and any human player can get around it easily enough regardless if the idea is to hinder Chinese communication with Middle Eastern/European powers.
     
  20. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    *blows dust off this thread*

    So, at the risk of adding way too many resources to the mod, I nevertheless want to open discussion about two additional resources that might be useful:

    1. Timber
    I think someone brought this up before but I resisted it at the time, but now I have been thinking about it some more and I think it has several advantages. My first idea is to give it a significant (such as 50%) production bonus for all ships, maybe accounting for it in overall ship costs, but building ships with Timber should be faster than it is now without. Major Ocean going vessels (Galleons, Frigates, Ships of the Line, Ironclads) could even require Timber outright. Then we could place Timber in locations with historically significant locations, for example Lebanon cedar to benefit Phoenicia. In addition, Timber is worthwhile as a resource that benefits northern climates, which are not already too resource dense. I especially thought about this in the context of settling North America, for which there are often not too many incentives. Historically timber was an important product of North American colonies, especially for the English.

    2. Nitre/Saltpetre
    I think this is interesting in two contexts: as a component of gunpowder and as a component of fertiliser. Given the historical distribution of saltpetre I don't think it makes sense to add it as a required resource to all gunpowder units because it would only ahistorically lock most civs out of them. However there are other ways to link them. For example there could be a Renaissance era building that gives additional experience to Gunpowder and Siege units but requires Saltpetre (Castles expire at the time and Gunpowder unit experience could be removed from Barracks). Later on, I would like to reform the unit resource requirement rules entirely and lock units less to resources. Instead having a number of resources would give free upkeep for a number of units that rely on the resource, and having Saltpetre in the game for that purpose would round out gunpowder units in that purpose. Regarding fertiliser, instead of giving +1 food to Farms with Biology the tech could unlock a new "Modern Farm" improvement that requires Saltpeter to be built. In that sense it would also provide more stuff to do for workers.

    I think both of those don't really compete with all the luxury resources that have been added so far (except maybe in terms of space) and instead fill interesting niches for strategic resources of the mid game with late game applications. Right now I only want to open discussion of them, and if someone wants to suggest or research plausible locations for them that would also help a lot in making the decision. It's not that easy to find out beyond famous sources like Saltpetre in Chile and India.
     

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