[Development] Alternative Map during 1.17

[merijn_v1]

Really nice. If you still want to improve on it, I would put the bamboo stalks in a cluster very slightly further apart, and increase the number of bamboo clusters (maybe some with fewer stalks?) compared to trees.

I used the hybrid forest as a base, so the amount of bamboo clusters is about the same. I can increase the amount a little. I guess about 40% bamboo will be nice.

I'm a bit hesitant with increasing the distance between stalks in a cluster, because it might cause the resource interaction not to work. Although I think this shouldn't be the problem in the new approach because I also changed some internal nif properties. But I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Temujin8k]

Leo, why did you decide not to move Tyre and Damascus 1SW (on the Dye and Sheep tiles, respectively)?

Also,

- tried to arrange resources to dissuade a supercity (flood plains do that too to some extent) so it is desirable to have both Memphis and Thebes

Does this explain why you did not place Flood Plains on the Egypt spawn tile and on the tiles 1SE and 2S1E of it? Also, where would you place Thebes wrt Memphis?

 

[Leoreth]

I think it is a more evenly spread distribution to have Tyre and Damascus further north.

I also tried to encourage city locations by not having floodplains on them. Thebes should be either 2S or 2S1E of Memphis.

 

[Temujin8k]

I see. Would you encourage having Antioch/Aleppo along with Tyre/Damascus, though? I'm not yet sure whether it's better to crowd Jerusalem or Antioch/Aleppo.

Also, what do you think about the current state of the Tibetan Plateau? Do you think it's already fine or do you think it needs a little more touch of love, i.e. better terrain?

 

[Leoreth]

I should try if Aleppo works, maybe even as a spawn in 3000 BC. But a working Tyre is the most important as it is an actual capital (as there are no background Tyres).

The area around Lhasa works for me, I haven't paid much attention to the rest of the plateau, but it's true that it has never been revised so if you have ideas I am interested.

 

[Vectors]

Removing gold from South India is not appropriate, the Kolar Gold Fields appear to have been in use for basically the entire game with it spanning from game start (being found in the Indus Valley Civilization) to being closed after 2000. The fact that India has always imported gold is already represented by the fact it has many many cities, and the limited number of cities each resource can supply. If the continent has over a dozen cities and one gold, it will try to import. This would be on the tile north of the aluminum.

 

[Tab911]

I'm gonna second adding gold to represent Kolar. It should be on the rare earth tile and the REs ought to be moved south of the aluminum. It still works out for gameplay because the Mughals and Indians would still have to trade for gold. The Tamils primarily traded with Rome. Exported was "pepper, pearls, ivory, textiles and gold ornaments" while imports were "luxury goods such as glass, coral, wine and topaz." Generally the AI doesn't seem to conquer this far south so even when the Tamils collapse, India and the Mughals will still be incentivized to trade luxury goods for gold, silver and wine.

 

[hnrysml]

I might not have a chance to do it for a while, but I will try to find the Tibetan city names and best locations for city placement in the Tibetan plateau, so the area can be reworked accordingly. All the names on the current map other than Lhasa are modern Chinese location names.

One example is Xining, an important city in the Tibetan plateau that has existed for over 2000 years and was an important silk route city. It was variously under Chinese,Tibetan, and local tribal control until the Song Dynasty, although before 1100 it didn't have the name Xining. I'm having trouble finding a Tibetan name for the city as most sources are Chinese, but perhaps it could at least have an earlier Chinese name if founded earlier. The location should at least be reflected on the map as one of the best settlement locations for a Tibetan player, or Chinese player looking to secure that region.

 

[Publicola]

Does anyone have a link to the actual map itself? (I'm wondering if we're using Bautos's original file, or if there's an updated one somewhere around here).

I have a bunch of ideas and suggestions, but without a map that I can edit, I'm stuck using words and hoping someone else is willing to model them and post the results...

 

[Oblivionyx]

It's in the Map branch of the Git.
https://github.com/dguenms/Dawn-of-Civilization/tree/map

 

[Leoreth]

You need the entire branch, the map itself will not be compatible with 1.16.

 

[merijn_v1]

New version. I added more clusters and the stalks are spaced a slightly more apart.
(PR is updated)

Spoiler :

 

[Leoreth]

They are not ready yet, because the final design of the map is not yet fully finished. It is a lot easier to apply changes to just one map and copy that map in the end than to apply the same change 3 times. And doing the same thing 3 times can easily cause inconsistencies between maps. Copying from the 3000 BC map in the end will make sure the maps are the same.

More to this point, before this map becomes official there will very likely only be one scenario file for all scenarios.

New version. I added more clusters and the stalks are spaced a slightly more apart.
(PR is updated)

Spoiler :

Really cool, I will look at it in my own game but this looks like it can be included asap.

 

[Leoreth]

New update:
- reverted the Okavango delta to be the normal forward flowing delta
- restored Kolar gold fields in India
- changed southeastern Spain to semidesert

 

[Publicola]

It's in the Map branch of the Git.
https://github.com/dguenms/Dawn-of-Civilization/tree/map

You need the entire branch, the map itself will not be compatible with 1.16.

...Turns out this was the 'straws and camel' thing, so I finally buckled down and got a Github account and TortoiseGit on my PC, and did the 'GitClone' to download the most recent version of the mod.

Now the question is, how do I download the 'map' branch, and how do I use branches? I couldn't find any directions on the main page of this mod; it only referenced creating branches and forks, not downloading and using forks. Do I really need to download an entire second mod folder just for the map, or is there a more convenient way?

 

[FraggleJock]

I think it is a more evenly spread distribution to have Tyre and Damascus further north.

I also tried to encourage city locations by not having floodplains on them. Thebes should be either 2S or 2S1E of Memphis.

Won't having a bad tile as city centre always encourage non canonical city placement. the puzzle game type UHV's can be pretty unforgiving if you take that extra couple of turns to push those early workers/sacrificial lambs out.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

bad tile as city centre

This makes me think: I haven't really been following this project in all details and I have no clue about what new types of terrain there are, but how about a terrain type whose explicit purpose it is to encourage settling cities on it? Just make it yield 2 Production, that way most improvements can't be built on it and it's not worth working but it gives a nice boost if a city is placed directly on top of it. As for the name or how it should look ingame, I have no clue.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

This makes me think: I haven't really been following this project in all details and I have no clue about what new types of terrain there are, but how about a terrain type whose explicit purpose it is to encourage settling cities on it? Just make it yield 2 Production, that way most improvements can't be built on it and it's not worth working but it gives a nice boost if a city is placed directly on top of it. As for the name or how it should look ingame, I have no clue.

I'm not a fan of that idea. It can be interesting to try different city arrangements, but this would disincentivize that.

 

[merijn_v1]

...Turns out this was the 'straws and camel' thing, so I finally buckled down and got a Github account and TortoiseGit on my PC, and did the 'GitClone' to download the most recent version of the mod.

Now the question is, how do I download the 'map' branch, and how do I use branches? I couldn't find any directions on the main page of this mod; it only referenced creating branches and forks, not downloading and using forks. Do I really need to download an entire second mod folder just for the map, or is there a more convenient way?

Use right-click -> totoiseGit -> checkout on the main folder to switch branches.

 

[merijn_v1]

Won't having a bad tile as city centre always encourage non canonical city placement. the puzzle game type UHV's can be pretty unforgiving if you take that extra couple of turns to push those early workers/sacrificial lambs out.

I think it would be the opposite. Building a city provides a minimum yield on that tile, which is usually not possible with improvements. And it leaves more “good” tiles to be worked and improved.