Crimean Lord
Warlord
Right!
ABHAZIA was muslim province of Georgia with powerfull separatists movement - and in the same time it's mountain border between Russia and Georgia
[Development] Map Suggestions
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Right!
ABHAZIA was muslim province of Georgia with powerfull separatists movement - and in the same time it's mountain border between Russia and Georgia
Crimean Lord
Warlord
It's Georgia
Land of vine and tea + historically it was disputed sphere of interests of Persia/Russia/Turkey
Ahh, Georgia... not so obvious to me the shape and position seemed off. I didn't even notice the tiny Gold spot.. but then what is the purple? I figured that was Georgia as it was closest to Russia, while it seemed a bit small and far north the shape (long, wedge-like) seemed more Georgia-y. Is that Abkhazia? When you put orange and purple together I really don't get the sense of the recognized borders of Georgia. Hence my confusion.
Caucasus borders are a mess whether you go by internationally recognised borders or Kremlin stance, but Georgia = Black Sea coast, Azerbaijan = Caspian coast, Armenia = landlocked makes it pretty obvious what's supposed to be what.
1SDANi
The Fading Memory
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 3,071
Green: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia
Gold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
Orange: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)
Brown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan
Blue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia
White: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Artsakh
The thing that's tripping you guys up is that the map includes nations that are in practice sovereign, but most other nations don't recognize them.
Publicola
King
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2014
- Messages
- 759
Thanks for clarifying! I knew about South Ossetia and Abkhazia being hotly disputed, but this is the first time I'm hearing about Artsakh.
1SDANi
The Fading Memory
- Joined
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- Messages
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Ay! I mean Orange + Green doesn't equal (internationally recognized) Georgia to me.** Purple is obviously Armenia and brown obviously Azerbaijan it was the Orange/Green that was tripping me up. Either Georgia is too North and too small (if it were green) and there is a new massive Caucasus state (orange) I haven't heard of or Abkhazia (green) is too big and Georgia (orange) is oddly shaped. I guess the borders are pretty hard to accurately represent as it's pretty tight.
Perhaps we can stick to "internationally recognized" borders for the purposes of clarity? (Coming from the guy who mistook Green for Purple...)
Imperator Knoedel
Currently obsessed with The Owl House
See, if the Soviet Union still existed we wouldn't have this mess to deal with!
#BuildtheBerlinWallandmakeAmericapayforit #MakeCommunismGreatAgain
#BuildtheBerlinWallandmakeAmericapayforit #MakeCommunismGreatAgain
Publicola
King
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2014
- Messages
- 759
Not sure if it belongs here or in the general 'Suggestions and Requests' thread, but I just learned that cotton plays a huge role in Egypt's economy (per Smithsonian, around 1900, 93% of its export income came from selling cotton). The particular variety of high-quality 'fine long staple' cotton was only discovered and seriously cultivated starting in the reign of Muhammed Ali Pascha, very early in the 1800's. I can't find a specific year, but some time between 1805 and 1820 would work.
Can we add a cotton resource to auto-spawn somewhere in the Egyptian delta around that time?
Can we add a cotton resource to auto-spawn somewhere in the Egyptian delta around that time?
Oblivionyx
Warlord
- Joined
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- 173
Isn't there already a cotton resource in Egypt? Near Alexandria?
Publicola
King
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2014
- Messages
- 759
There's only the one, NW of Alexandria, right? Given the absolute explosion of cotton production and exports from Egypt in the 1800s, especially after the American Civil War, I was suggesting that we add an extra cotton resource, to spawn early in that century somewhere in the Nile delta itself. Or perhaps add some sort of event, that would increase the commerce value of cotton tiles that exist.
It was usually called Nagorno-Karabakh until recently if that helps.
Do you still have your art defines for the atolls with the sandbanks using vanilla coast textures?A test with some sandbanks. I used the vanilla coast texture, so it is a bit lighter than the coast used in DoC.
It does give an ugly border when you add a land tile next to it. It can be masked a bit by rainforests and cities.
Spoiler :
And the Venice Lagoon.
Spoiler :
The Tenochtitlan lagoon looks similar to stebs image.
EDIT:
This is with the DoC coast texture for reference.
Spoiler :
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Copy the ART_DEF of the coast, change the <LayerOrder> to 6 and copy and use the textures from the vanilla game. (IIRC they are in the FPK files of vanilla Civ4)
I can make a PR on the newmap branch if you want.
I can make a PR on the newmap branch if you want.
Code:
<TerrainArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_TERRAIN_LAGOON</Type>
<Path>Art/Terrain/Textures/lagoonBLEND.dds</Path>
<Grid>Art/Terrain/Textures/lagoonGrids.dds</Grid>
<Detail>Art/Terrain/Textures/lagoonDetail.dds</Detail>
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/BaseTerrain/Coast.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/BaseTerrain_TerrainFeatures_Atlas.dds,1,1</Button>
<LayerOrder>6</LayerOrder>
<AlphaShader>0</AlphaShader>
<TextureBlend01>1,180 5,270 9,180 13,270 17,180 21,270 26,270</TextureBlend01>
<TextureBlend02>1,270 5,0 9,270 13,0 17,270 21,0 26,0</TextureBlend02>
<TextureBlend04>1,0 5,90 9,0 13,90 17,0 21,90 26,90</TextureBlend04>
<TextureBlend08>1,90 5,180 9,90 13,180 17,90 21,180 26,180</TextureBlend08>
<TextureBlend03>3,0 7,180 11,0 15,180 19,0 23,180 27,0 31,180</TextureBlend03>
<TextureBlend06>3,90 7,270 11,90 15,270 19,90 23,270 27,90 31,270</TextureBlend06>
<TextureBlend12>3,180 7,0 11,180 15,0 19,180 23,0 27,180 31,0</TextureBlend12>
<TextureBlend09>3,270 7,90 11,270 15,90 19,270 23,90 27,270 31,90</TextureBlend09>
<TextureBlend07>4,0 8,270 12,0 16,270 20,0 24,270 28,0 32,270</TextureBlend07>
<TextureBlend14>4,90 8,0 12,90 16,0 20,90 24,0 28,90 32,0</TextureBlend14>
<TextureBlend13>4,180 8,90 12,180 16,90 20,180 24,90 28,180 32,90</TextureBlend13>
<TextureBlend11>4,270 8,180 12,270 16,180 20,270 24,180 28,270 32,180</TextureBlend11>
<TextureBlend10>2,0 6,90 10,0 14,90 18,0 22,90 </TextureBlend10>
<TextureBlend05>2,90 6,0 10,90 14,0 18,90 22,0 </TextureBlend05>
<TextureBlend15>29,0 </TextureBlend15>
</TerrainArtInfo>Thanks! A pull request on the map branch would be even better.
Krieger-FS
Warlord
Hello all! I'm a long time lurker in the foruns and DoC player and recently I was inspired by some suggestions made that I decided to make my own suggestions/contributions to the new map devolpment, especially around South America.
As a disclaimer, I've been working on these suggestions for a few weeks and, as such, they were made in a prior version of the git map branch. So I didn't include some new features (such as the salt flats).
Anyway, I begin with proposals to Brazilian territory. Please note that I've made substantial changes that would made somewhat difficult to streess all of it in detail, square by square; if there is any doubt about something, please ask.
Some notes before the proposals:
a) The cities marked are not suggestions of canon or pre-placed cities for the scenarios. It's actually the modern (and argably most important) cities in these regions nowadays, mostly to make easier for locating the proposed changes in real maps. In the future I will make a separete post about them.
b) For the resources placement, I've adopted as a rule some spawn dates as: Pre-colonial (pre-placed in the map since 3000 BCE), Colonial (1600 CE) and Post-Independance (1800 CE).
Now, I begin with Brazilian Northeast, with the original map and the modified:
Original:
New:
The changes here are basically in the terrain features and resources. The litoral is greener and covered with rainforests, representing the zona da mata region, which is a tropical, humid and fertile area that was used extensibly for farming since colonial times, mainly to produce sugar and other cash crops. The interior, the sertão, is considerable more dryer (semi-arid by the Koppen classification) and marked by the caatinga vegetation. I've also changed some of the mountains to hills. Brazil don't have true geographic mountains (the highest one is Pico da Neblina, in the border with Venezuela), but I understand that mountains in DoC are more relative than literal. Anyway, although there is a plateau in the locations originally marked as mountains and a peak of 2000 mts, the heigh there is generally 500-1000 mts and I think is more appropriate using hills. As a side note, this area can be worked by important and large cities, giving the proper representation for some of the most populous states (Bahia e Minas Gerais) and cities (such as Salvador and Belo Horizonte) in Brazil. Finally, I've added some islands (2N1E of Natal), which represent the Fernando de Noronha archipelago.
Resources overview:
I've completly redo the resources placement in this region. I removed the iron, oil and gems. The first because the mining is inexpressive here when compared with other regions and the second because, while the first Brazilian oilfields were located in Bahia, it wasn't a large reserve and Brazil was dependent of oil imports during most of her history. As a side note, it was precisely by this reason that the country developed its ethanol fuel industry, the UP of the civilization. Finally, I removed the gems (originaly 1E of Natal) because I didn't found any referece to this kind of mining in that area; this production was important only in Minas Gerais (which I will discuss in my next post about Southeast region)
The ones included (with justification) or changed places are following:
Pre-Colonial
Dyes (2S of Salvador): represent the Brazilwood exploration. This was the first economic cycle of the colony and gave Brazil its current name. Should disapear by the 1600s, when lose economic importance.
Tobacco: this resource was used by indigenous peoples in Brazil since before the arrival of the Portuguese. During colonial times, tobacco was planted and sold not only to Europe but also in Africa, where was traded for slaves.
Cotton: another resoucer used by indigenous peoples. It was also planted during colonial times, but became more proeminently produced and exported by the 19th century.
Potatoes: another case similar to the formers, but here the resource represents the cassava production in Maranhão and Piauí. In gameplay perspective, it also helps that Belém (in the Amazon/North region) grows in size, as that was the most populous city and port in the Amazon basin for a long time.
Crab: did'nt changed in the original map, as represent lobster and shrimp fishing. As a fun-fact, in the 1960s there was a armed dispute for lobster fishing between Brazil and France in this area, an event similar to the Cod Wars between Iceland and UK.
Fish: also didn't changed from the original map. Bahia is know for its fishing and this resource also helps Salvador grows, which is a good thing for gameplay and historically correct perspective.
Colonial:
Sugar (2 resources): after the exploration of Brazilwood, sugar became the main crop and exportation product of the colony, initiating the 2nd economic cycle, the one who broght millions of African slaves to the country. The two resources represent not only the huge production of this product (Brazil was the main producer in the world in by the late 16th century) but also are located in the Pernambuco state, which was the richest and most prosperous part of the colony until 18th century thanks to the sugar production; the area and platations were so profitable here that the Dutch invaded and made a colony during 17th century.
Bananas: represent the tropical fruits production in the area since colonial times and it is also spawned in the game. It's important to note, however, that this production was of minor importance until late 19th century.
Cocoa: this region is historically the main production area of cocoa beans in Brazil. Also became more important after Brazilian independence.
Cattle: the sertão and caatinga were poor areas for farming, however they were used as pasture for mounts (particularly donkeys) and meat (salt beef) to supply the farms and cities on the zona da mata region, which was quite important during colonial times. Even today this is one of the main economic activities of the area.
Salt: represents the production of marine salt in Rio Grande do Norte state, which supplies all Brazil even today. I should note that I don't really know if the salt resource represent only the mineral salt or could also apply to marine salt, so this inclusion is dependent of that definition.
Post-Independence and Modern:
Uranium: Brazil has one of the largest reserves of uranium in the world and this was the largest area of mining. As a side note (for historical and gameplay reasons), Brazil developed a nuclear capacity in the 1970s with German technological assistance, achiving even the expertise needed for making nuclear weapons by 1980s.
Any resource that I haven't mentioned will be explaned in the next posts about the suggestions for other Brazilian regions. I hope that I've made my suggestions clear (English is not my first language) and would love have some feedback.
As a disclaimer, I've been working on these suggestions for a few weeks and, as such, they were made in a prior version of the git map branch. So I didn't include some new features (such as the salt flats).
Anyway, I begin with proposals to Brazilian territory. Please note that I've made substantial changes that would made somewhat difficult to streess all of it in detail, square by square; if there is any doubt about something, please ask.
Some notes before the proposals:
a) The cities marked are not suggestions of canon or pre-placed cities for the scenarios. It's actually the modern (and argably most important) cities in these regions nowadays, mostly to make easier for locating the proposed changes in real maps. In the future I will make a separete post about them.
b) For the resources placement, I've adopted as a rule some spawn dates as: Pre-colonial (pre-placed in the map since 3000 BCE), Colonial (1600 CE) and Post-Independance (1800 CE).
Now, I begin with Brazilian Northeast, with the original map and the modified:
Original:
Spoiler :
New:
Spoiler :
The changes here are basically in the terrain features and resources. The litoral is greener and covered with rainforests, representing the zona da mata region, which is a tropical, humid and fertile area that was used extensibly for farming since colonial times, mainly to produce sugar and other cash crops. The interior, the sertão, is considerable more dryer (semi-arid by the Koppen classification) and marked by the caatinga vegetation. I've also changed some of the mountains to hills. Brazil don't have true geographic mountains (the highest one is Pico da Neblina, in the border with Venezuela), but I understand that mountains in DoC are more relative than literal. Anyway, although there is a plateau in the locations originally marked as mountains and a peak of 2000 mts, the heigh there is generally 500-1000 mts and I think is more appropriate using hills. As a side note, this area can be worked by important and large cities, giving the proper representation for some of the most populous states (Bahia e Minas Gerais) and cities (such as Salvador and Belo Horizonte) in Brazil. Finally, I've added some islands (2N1E of Natal), which represent the Fernando de Noronha archipelago.
Resources overview:
Spoiler :
I've completly redo the resources placement in this region. I removed the iron, oil and gems. The first because the mining is inexpressive here when compared with other regions and the second because, while the first Brazilian oilfields were located in Bahia, it wasn't a large reserve and Brazil was dependent of oil imports during most of her history. As a side note, it was precisely by this reason that the country developed its ethanol fuel industry, the UP of the civilization. Finally, I removed the gems (originaly 1E of Natal) because I didn't found any referece to this kind of mining in that area; this production was important only in Minas Gerais (which I will discuss in my next post about Southeast region)
The ones included (with justification) or changed places are following:
Pre-Colonial
Dyes (2S of Salvador): represent the Brazilwood exploration. This was the first economic cycle of the colony and gave Brazil its current name. Should disapear by the 1600s, when lose economic importance.
Tobacco: this resource was used by indigenous peoples in Brazil since before the arrival of the Portuguese. During colonial times, tobacco was planted and sold not only to Europe but also in Africa, where was traded for slaves.
Cotton: another resoucer used by indigenous peoples. It was also planted during colonial times, but became more proeminently produced and exported by the 19th century.
Potatoes: another case similar to the formers, but here the resource represents the cassava production in Maranhão and Piauí. In gameplay perspective, it also helps that Belém (in the Amazon/North region) grows in size, as that was the most populous city and port in the Amazon basin for a long time.
Crab: did'nt changed in the original map, as represent lobster and shrimp fishing. As a fun-fact, in the 1960s there was a armed dispute for lobster fishing between Brazil and France in this area, an event similar to the Cod Wars between Iceland and UK.
Fish: also didn't changed from the original map. Bahia is know for its fishing and this resource also helps Salvador grows, which is a good thing for gameplay and historically correct perspective.
Colonial:
Sugar (2 resources): after the exploration of Brazilwood, sugar became the main crop and exportation product of the colony, initiating the 2nd economic cycle, the one who broght millions of African slaves to the country. The two resources represent not only the huge production of this product (Brazil was the main producer in the world in by the late 16th century) but also are located in the Pernambuco state, which was the richest and most prosperous part of the colony until 18th century thanks to the sugar production; the area and platations were so profitable here that the Dutch invaded and made a colony during 17th century.
Bananas: represent the tropical fruits production in the area since colonial times and it is also spawned in the game. It's important to note, however, that this production was of minor importance until late 19th century.
Cocoa: this region is historically the main production area of cocoa beans in Brazil. Also became more important after Brazilian independence.
Cattle: the sertão and caatinga were poor areas for farming, however they were used as pasture for mounts (particularly donkeys) and meat (salt beef) to supply the farms and cities on the zona da mata region, which was quite important during colonial times. Even today this is one of the main economic activities of the area.
Salt: represents the production of marine salt in Rio Grande do Norte state, which supplies all Brazil even today. I should note that I don't really know if the salt resource represent only the mineral salt or could also apply to marine salt, so this inclusion is dependent of that definition.
Post-Independence and Modern:
Uranium: Brazil has one of the largest reserves of uranium in the world and this was the largest area of mining. As a side note (for historical and gameplay reasons), Brazil developed a nuclear capacity in the 1970s with German technological assistance, achiving even the expertise needed for making nuclear weapons by 1980s.
Any resource that I haven't mentioned will be explaned in the next posts about the suggestions for other Brazilian regions. I hope that I've made my suggestions clear (English is not my first language) and would love have some feedback.
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