I just learned that there is extensive sea cucumber fishing in the Australian west coast, which also prompted Makassar to travel there for fishing and trade. I wonder what the best resource would be to represent that. Crab?
Though apparently Sea Urchins are also widely eaten and fished all over the world. Perhaps a new resource could be added for Echinoderms, with Sea Cucumbers and Sea Urchins being the two graphical variants?
Though apparently Sea Urchins are also widely eaten and fished all over the world. Perhaps a new resource could be added for Echinoderms, with Sea Cucumbers and Sea Urchins being the two graphical variants?
Though apparently Sea Urchins are also widely eaten and fished all over the world. Perhaps a new resource could be added for Echinoderms, with Sea Cucumbers and Sea Urchins being the two graphical variants?
I think very, very few people get a significant proportion of their diet from either of those sources, which to me is the line between something that would be a good food resource and something that wouldn't. If another sea food resource is needed, I'd put cephalopods (with squid and octopus variants?) way higher on the priority list. I'd argue seaweed is probably a more important crop than echinoderms, as well.
Thinking about this does make me wonder how in the world chickens/turkeys/ducks/other poultry aren't in vanilla civ, considering that they are and have almost always been an extremely common part of human diet.
I also agree that octopus and seaweed should both be way higher on the list for aquatic food than sea cucumbers. I'd also have different type of fish before having sea cucumbers (white vs oily; or salt vs freshwater; or foraging vs pelagic).
I think very, very few people get a significant proportion of their diet from either of those sources, which to me is the line between something that would be a good food resource and something that wouldn't. If another sea food resource is needed, I'd put cephalopods (with squid and octopus variants?) way higher on the priority list. I'd argue seaweed is probably a more important crop than echinoderms, as well.
Thinking about this does make me wonder how in the world chickens/turkeys/ducks/other poultry aren't in vanilla civ, considering that they are and have almost always been an extremely common part of human diet.
I mean I've been doing some thinking and it seems really weird to me that the resources are even in DOC at all.
DOC takes a "worldwide" approach, so the idea of there being a "cow" or "pigs" resource is kind of weird. Cows and pigs are everywhere! Rice and wheat are everywhere!
I'm not saying all resources should be removed, but if you think about them for a minute or two they're actually quite immersion breaking. I get what it represents (wheat doesn't literally mean "wheat is grown here", it means this area is highly fertile, and wheat is grown in it).
A replacement might just be different terrain variants with more generic names: "fertile grassland", "fertile plains", so on.
Very droll of you. Zombies and vampires are more engaging.
"Engaging" isn't what we're here for. If that's what people were looking for, this would be a Civ 6 forum.
We could change the name of the resource "clam" to "mollusk" and thus use "clam" and "octopus / squid" as Variants.
add an "algae" resource, with the variants "seaweed" and "algae".
add an "echinoderm" resource, with "sea cumcumbers" and "sea urchins" variants
as suggested above, adding the "poultry" resource would be very interesting, we could use the variants
"goose" mainly for Europe,
"ducks" mainly to USA / other areas,
"chickens" for everyone,
"turkey" mainly to mexico / USA / canada
We could change the name of the resource "clam" to "mollusk" and thus use "clam" and "octopus / squid" as Variants.
add an "algae" resource, with the variants "seaweed" and "algae".
add an "echinoderm" resource, with "sea cumcumbers" and "sea urchins" variants
as suggested above, adding the "poultry" resource would be very interesting, we could use the variants
"goose" mainly for Europe,
"ducks" mainly to USA / other areas,
"chickens" for everyone,
"turkey" mainly to mexico / USA / canada
Almost no algae that couldn't also be called seaweed is consumed in any large quantities. There's spirulina but it's mostly dried and taken as a supplement. Plus I don't want to imagine how an "algae" resource would look on a map. To be real with you though, most of my suggestions were meant to be taken as somewhat absurd, just better than sea urchins lol. Like, I'm of the opinion that since the game is necessarily an abstraction, it's better to start with "how many kinds of seafood resources do we want?" and then figure out which specific ones to use after that question has been answered, rather than try to think up all the different things that COULD be used and balance the game around the large number we come up with.
If poultry makes the cut, though, my fingers are crossed for guinea fowl variant. Honestly wild birds as a "game" variant are another option for stuff like quail, pheasants, and sea birds that are traditionally hunted wild rather than farm raised.
I think the "not a significant food source" and "if x is included the y should be too" is looking at the resources in the wrong way. I think a resource is on the map bc it has a significant effect on the region, or for gameplay/balance/fun reasons. Sea Cucumbers are a luxury resource that Indonesian nations established complex trade and diplomacy networks to exploit.
For me the inclusion of such a resource (extracted far from the region the people extracting are from) raises other issues such as the trading posts idea people have previously discussed. Maybe fishing boats could be built outside of cultural boundaries in certain conditions and provide the resource to a player who has a ship on the tile?
Civ 3 had a feature where you could settle a worker as a "Colony" on a tile. It consumed the worker, but let you get access to strategic resources/luxuries outside of your territory.
I'm sure something like this could be implemented, but obviously it would be a balancing issue... if not nightmare.
The Final Frontier Plus mod has a similar mechanic, to create 'starbases' that function somewhat like forts (easier to defend) and somewhat like cities (1-culture claim on all tiles immediately around the starbase. I'm a huge fan of doing something similar in Dawn of Civilization for colonies, albeit it with an additional mechanism for turning such colonies into real functioning cities.
I think the "not a significant food source" and "if x is included the y should be too" is looking at the resources in the wrong way. I think a resource is on the map bc it has a significant effect on the region, or for gameplay/balance/fun reasons. Sea Cucumbers are a luxury resource that Indonesian nations established complex trade and diplomacy networks to exploit.
For me the inclusion of such a resource (extracted far from the region the people extracting are from) raises other issues such as the trading posts idea people have previously discussed.
That sounds like sea cucumbers could be a graphical variant of pearls. People do eat sea cucumbers, but the caloric and nutritional contribution is negligible; their economic use is a luxury product, like pearls.
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