Did Nazi Germany Racial Policies Cost Them The War?

Zardnaar

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I've seen photos of German soldiers in the USSR being treated as liberators and there were reports they Russians at first preferred the Germans over their own government. No surprise in the Ukraine and Baltic states as well.

How well did the German troops behave themselves in these occupied territories in WW1 and it seems easy to me if the Germans weren't so harsh on the "slavs" They probably could have won the war. Also it wopuld have freed up manpower used in the holocaust fo frontline service.

Thoughts?
 
According to my extremely biased source ("The Nazis" section of "The Most Evil Men" or something), the Wehrmacht Heer didn't want to blamed for the racially-charged atrocities committed in the East--it was all the Blackshirts' fault.

Blame it all on the Blackshirts. [/not answering anything]
 
Indeed it costed everything. The soldiers didn't want to die for Stalin. I heard about cases, where 2 German soldiers made about 1.000 Soviet PoW. They just surrendered. If Hitler didn't lead a racial war he could have been in Moscow with ease. That changed dramatically when the Austrian ordered the racial policies.

Adler
 
Nazis did kill an awfully lot of people who would have been useful for them as workers and soldiers and at the same time made those still alive to hate them with passion.
 
Indeed the rascism probably contributed to Germany's defeat, but without them the war would probably never have started anyway.
 
According to my extremely biased source ("The Nazis" section of "The Most Evil Men" or something), the Wehrmacht Heer didn't want to blamed for the racially-charged atrocities committed in the East--it was all the Blackshirts' fault.

Blame it all on the Blackshirts. [/not answering anything]

Well the Heer (especially its higher ranking members) liked to distance itself from the Nazi regime after the war, many of them seemed genuinely confused as to why the Western Allies hadn't joined the anti-bolshevik crusade as well. Evidence suggests however that many generals knew of the warcrimes being committed, and many of the Heer's rank and file either watched or took part in some of the less pleasant operations carried out in the rear areas.

It would therefore be an exaggeration to blame the holocaust on the Heer, or lay the responsibility for carrying it out on them, but a mistake to assume it was all the fault of Hitler and the Blackshirts.
 
I'd also like to point out the brain drain it caused Germany. Albert Einstein, Edward Teller, Paul Wigner, Otto Frisch, Felix Bloch, Rudolf Peierls, and Leo Szilard to name a few, all fled Europe because of anti-semitism. There were quite a few more gentile scientist who fled due to opposition to fascism.
 
What about Russians themselves? Didn't alot of them fight for the Germans as well?
 
According to Nafziger somewhere in the region of a quarter of the entire German Army in 1945 were former citizens of the Soviet Union. He also states that around the time of D-Day something like 800,000 were in the army and a further 100,000 divided between the Kreigsmarine and Navy. These figures unfortunately aren't broken down into nationalities but its hard to imagine that there wouldn't be a significant number of Russians in those ranks.

Its also worth noting that when Hitler went into one of his rages about desertion rates in Vlasov's army he insisted on it being disolved it on masse. His generals pleaded with him not to do so since the loss of all the Russian troops and Hiwis would bring the Russian front to collapse. He eventually relented to only disbanding units whose loyalty was questionable and transferring many of the others to the west. This lead to the Western Allies running into all kinds of unusual "Ost" troops in the Normandy campaign.

Given the rather striking will of many citizens of the USSR to serve in the Wehrmacht despite all that Hitler was unleashing on the country its not hard to imagine how a slightly more lenient attitude towards such people could have resulted in an even greater pool of manpower being made available.
 
Nazis didn't have the resources to treat their PoWs or occupied populations well. And they certainly had no intentions of doing so.
 
The racial policies helped unite Germany, and from there go on to fight as it did. It could have united other, better ways, but simply without racial ideas and nothing else to unite it, Germany would not have been what it was. It would have taken another leader besides Hitler, who espoused different ideals, to have the same power and unity.
I think so, anyway.
But now if it didn't have that racist ideas and it did have the unity it brought, it is much more possible that they would have won. But at the same time, if were are looking at this alternate Germany, would it still have attacked as it did? The whole reason it did, or at least was justified, was racism. Without that who knows, could it have built itself into prosperity without invasion?
If we take this alternate Germany, we could look at another French or Russian revolution type thing (the later parts anyway, if there were no initial revolution to start if off). By that I mean, Germany takes on new ideas that aren't racist, I suppose it could still be fascist, though at some point you'd think those racist ideas would be played upon and effect the way foreigners were used, who knows. It could also have been communist or something like that, either way, here Germany could be united and not necessarily be racist and thus take on all the help it could get, as it tries to spread it's revolutionary ideas, and would most certainly be provoke war with the other major powers, as the French and Russian Revolutions did.
While I'm going alt history, depending on this Germany, the Spanish Civil War could have ended much differently, and Italy may have become an enemy (3 sides? Or would Italy be with the Allies?) or it may have mirrored Italy's (and therefore probably Franco's) fascism more, where racism wasn't really played upon.
All in all, I've said to much, but spoke my mind nonetheless.
cheers.
 
@West , the Bersailes treaty had much to do , with the Rise of Nazis and Hitler in Power. If someone else with nationalist but less racist ideals existed , with such charisma , he may have done it much more successfully. ON the other hand Hitler has a package. There was in it Racism but also charisma that was successful at giving him power and uniting people for his causes.

I think Germany would be nationalist , but not as united or aggresive if Nazis did not rise to power.
 
If it weren't for the racial policies, the Nazis would probably not be considered nearly as universally evil as they were and are. Alienation of occupied peoples has been a knife pointed at the heart of many, many empires.
 
Extra manpower wouldn't have saved Germany. As before mentioned, hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans served in the German war machine while millions were used as slaves.

The Nazis could never keep up with the USSR, Britian and USA's industrial output. And that, as well as some rather questionable military decisions from Hitler cost Germany the war. Not a lack of troops.
 
Extra manpower wouldn't have saved Germany. As before mentioned, hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans served in the German war machine while millions were used as slaves.

The Nazis could never keep up with the USSR, Britian and USA's industrial output. And that, as well as some rather questionable military decisions from Hitler cost Germany the war. Not a lack of troops.

Well, if the Nazi attitude towards Slavs had been different, Hitler could probably have caused all-out revolution in USSR, resulting in Communists being overthrown and new government installed. This might have put USSR's huge industrial output onto another side of that equation...
 
Well, if the Nazi attitude towards Slavs had been different, Hitler could probably have caused all-out revolution in USSR, resulting in Communists being overthrown and new government installed.

Pure nonsense right from nazi mythology. Hitler's invasion consolidated Stalin's regime politically, it didn't weaken it. The nazis would've probably met more resistence if they hadn't savagely punished rebellious populations to "set an example to others" (which is ancient but often brutally effective tactic when it comes to occupation). And furthermore, the nazis couldn't have afforded to care for the occupied populations: the nazi economy was very narrowly focused on warfare and food was scarce.
 
Pure nonsense right from nazi mythology. Hitler's invasion consolidated Stalin's regime politically, it didn't weaken it.

I do not claim to be an expert on the matter. Admittedly I know only as much as Solzhenitsyn wrote about the topic in the "Archipelago", but he kind of agrees with OP.
Care to elaborate how you came to this conclusion of yours?
 
I do not claim to be an expert on the matter. Admittedly I know only as much as Solzhenitsyn wrote about the topic in the "Archipelago", but he kind of agrees with OP.
Care to elaborate how you came to this conclusion of yours?

Solzhenitsyn is a crappy and a biased historian. I recently had a discussion about him on another forum site. I can imagine that antisemitic, bigoted nationalist tsarist apologist aching for a nazi victory.
 
Solzhenitsyn is a crappy and a biased historian. I recently had a discussion about him on another forum site. I can imagine that antisemitic, bigoted nationalist tsarist apologist aching for a nazi victory.

I'll take a tsarist apologist over a stalinist one any day of the week.

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I think it is clear that the germans could have used the hatred that the people occupied by the soviets felt for them. As other said, they were cheered in the Ukraine as liberators.

The nazis turned out to be as bad as Stalin, and even so they managed to recruit quite some people in the East. Could they have won the war? No, but perhaps they could have reached some sort of settlement. The most likely outcome would still be a complete german defeat, but the soviets would endure even a greater beating.
 
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