Did "The West" invade Russia in 1941?

In 1812 Napoleon/France invaded Russia because Russia was undermining his "Continental System" to blockade Britain. Russia won the campaign and then later with allies won the war.
If we’re going to look for any historical parallels to the West as we know it today, the Keep France Down Club at the Congress of Vienna comes the closest, at which point we can say that Russia was decidedly part of the West. :)
 
Germany declared war on Russia, not the other way around, in ww1. Much the same as ww2 Germany declared war on the US and not the other way around.
I avoided declarations of war and focused on the actual invasions because the topic is invasions.
 
My point is that, if you read people of that era (build-up to ww2, before ww2) you will easily pick up that a synonymic notion of "the west" very clearly existed. Including (up to) open racism against slavs and other non-west europeans (let alone any non-europeans).
Meanings and contexts change with time, which is why I say the West did not attack Russia in 1941; again, what we call the West today in this context (geopolitics) did not exist in 1941.

The “old” West could be characterized as the white Christian world, but this distinction is pretty meaningless talking about any political identifications. The English fought the French, the Spanish fought the English and the Dutch, the Austrians fought the Italians and the Germans, the Germans fought the Polish and the Swedish, and the Swedish fought the Russians.
 
That seems very much a post-facto position. Poland was actively being courted by Germany internationally, was mobilizing its army to threaten Czechoslovakia, and was given land out of Munich. The willingness of the Polish government to take land out of Munich shows they had other concerns on their mind than being uncomfortable with permitting the transit of Soviet troops to support Czechoslovak independence. (Independence Poland was actively undermining in pursuit of its irredentist claims.)
From the Soviet point of view, France and Britain actively trying to prevent you from fulfilling your treaty obligations (to a country they also had treaty obligations with!) in favor of siding with the Nazis explains a lot of subsequent Soviet policy.
Poland totally expected to be attacked and occupied by USSR when they would allow its possibility. That they were courted by Germany, they refused German proposal of antisoviet alliance. They also refused enter of Soviet army even when Germany was threatening them. This was the design by Josef Beck...CS-Polish relations were tragic mainly because him. There was open hate between Beck and Beneš.
The whole situation was made in 1919-1921, when Poles were in war with USSR and Czechoslovakia seized Teschen. (and Belarus and Ukraine were seized by USSR against the peace agreements)
 
The whole situation was made in 1919-1921, when Poles were in war with USSR and Czechoslovakia seized Teschen. (and Belarus and Ukraine were seized by USSR against the peace agreements)
Brest-Litovsk treaty ceded Belarus and Ukraine to Poland? :)
 
Poland totally expected to be attacked and occupied by USSR when they would allow its possibility. That they were courted by Germany, they refused German proposal of antisoviet alliance. They also refused enter of Soviet army even when Germany was threatening them. This was the design by Josef Beck...CS-Polish relations were tragic mainly because him. There was open hate between Beck and Beneš.
The whole situation was made in 1919-1921, when Poles were in war with USSR and Czechoslovakia seized Teschen. (and Belarus and Ukraine were seized by USSR against the peace agreements)
So the Polish government, rather than attempting to proclaim itself neutral, decided to throw its lot in with the Nazis and join in the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia.
In 1938 the Soviet government was attempting to uphold the system of alliances that would, in theory, keep peace in Europe and the independence of Czechoslovakia. Had Poland granted Soviet troops transit rights - whether on its own initiative or under Franco-British encouragement - it is highly likely Germany would have backed down. It's military was in no position to fight a war against Czechoslovakia and the Soviet Union. Indeed, a Germany-Czech war on its own would have been a fairly close-run thing; I'm sure you know the Skoda Works were the largest armament factory in Europe at the time. The single best chance to prevent World War 2, out the window because the French, British, and Poles decided it was better to sell out Czechoslovakia to the Nazis than, god forbid, let the Soviet Union in the European club.
Poland could also have retained some basic moral sense and refused to participate or acknowledge the Munich Agreement, but no.
(And don't think I'm forgetting about the Hungarians, but at least the Polish resistance to the Nazis showed courage.)
 
Nobody mentions Charles XII leading a Swedish army into Russia during the Great Northern War?
Well, that's probably because nobody can understand them!
 
Nobody mentions Charles XII leading a Swedish army into Russia during the Great Northern War?
I would have mentioned it but I am not particularly familiar with the situation, so left it off my list. :)
 
The official narrative is that you claiming that the West never attacked Russia first, speaking in context of WW2 is beyond ridiculous.

YOUR ALLY NAZI GERMANY
attacked Russia
FIXED
 
If we’re going to look for any historical parallels to the West as we know it today, the Keep France Down Club at the Congress of Vienna comes the closest, at which point we can say that Russia was decidedly part of the West. :)

Or the powers that backed the Whites and sent forces to Russia during the Civil War, mostly Britain and France.
 
4 pages sigh...

Todays 'Western Civilization' has nothing to do with past times definition of 'the West'. It's no longer a geographical descriptor; it is a culture and value based common denominator. That's why nations such as Australia and New Zealand, are considered part of 'Western Civilization', despite being located to the South-East of Russia and China. Australia shares longitudes with Japan... and Russia itself.
 
Yeah, Japan is western but not European. Russia is European, but not western, at this point.
 
I also wonder how are classified Poland, Slovakia, Czek Republic and so on. Are they now "the West" or are they still "the East" ? Or something in the middle ?
 
I also wonder how are classified Poland, Slovakia, Czek Republic and so on. Are they now "the West" or are they still "the East" ? Or something in the middle ?
In broad reference to former socialist countries I would say they are Westernizing, with varying degrees of success.

I don’t think you can pin it down to an exact formula, but as a general principle it would be a high-income country with a liberal democratic system and a favorable alignment towards USA/NATO.
 
In broad reference to former socialist countries I would say they are Westernizing, with varying degrees of success.

I don’t think you can pin it down to an exact formula, but as a general principle it would be a high-income country with a liberal democratic system and a favorable alignment towards USA/NATO.
Rule of law, representative democracy, strong legal protection of individual rights, but not least that of property – multilateralism in international trade, and rule-based-international politics at least generally preferred, if still optional.
 
If anything illustrates how moronic the term "the West" is, it's this thread.

So it does serve a purpose. Well done thread, I was wrong about you.
 
How close are we figuring out the true meaning of 'the West' or will it be reavealed to us by a messiah of some sort?
 
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