Differing reactions to men & women getting abused

[Ironsided]

Why?......

 

[Light Cleric]

Why?......

Yeah, why? Someone's finally calling TF out on his antagonistic trashposting, don't bail him out.

 

[Ironsided]

I think TF is the best poster on this here msg board. Why should I not defend him? Are you mad?

 

[Light Cleric]

I think TF is the best poster on this here msg board. Why should I not defend him? Are you mad?

You didn't even defend him, though, you just took a cheap shot at Phrossack while ignoring his actual message...which actually explains a lot of why you think TF is the best poster here.

And yes, when someone buries my posts that actually took effort with un-constructive mindless drivel such that he can continue to lazily lump people together, it's kinda irritating, as a matter of fact.

Maybe you're not used to people actually being direct instead of passive-aggressive about it, I dunno. Sorry if that's a shock, I don't like to mince words or dance around.

 

[Ironsided]

Whatever. I like TF more than your average idiot, is that OK in your book of fairness?

 

[Traitorfish]

I might have to cite that on a job application one day. "'More likeable than your average idiot.' (Some guy on the internet, 2014)"

 

[Light Cleric]

I don't much care what anyone thinks of anyone, frankly, I care when nets are cast that explicitly include me, without ever addressing a single word I said, in order to end a debate. I actually pretty much agreed with a lot of Cheezy's first point there(The dude was very clearly a men's rights/PUA kind of guy), but what's the point of even trying to argue the second post when it won't be read or will be ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative?

 

[Ironsided]

Maybe you are just a bit touchy feely about people saying bad stuffs about the US, Cheezy is too. We don’t care.

 

[Light Cleric]

...I wasn't even talking about anything you said, you just came in here like 20 minutes ago.

 

[Ironsided]

You were personally addressing me turtle man.

 

[Traitorfish]

If you catch my drift.

 

[Ironsided]

You don't have to feel obliged or post silly comics, the turtle face was addressing me personally at least twice. Let him answer.

 

[Light Cleric]

I wasn't talking about anything you said in that post, because you hadn't spammed away or buried anything I said before. Maybe I should've been more clear. In the previous one I obviously was, given that I quoted you in it.

 

[Ironsided]

Whatever. Take a chill pill.

 

[Traitorfish]

You kids keep it down in here, or I'm turning this thread around and, er, posting more semi-pertinent comics!

 

[Bootstoots]

Moderator Action: Thread temporarily closed due to excessive bickering. All bickerers should calm down and stop the one-line attacks

 

[Bootstoots]

Moderator Action: Reopened. All posters should be civil and refrain from flaming and spam from this point on, or more action may be taken.

 

[Rashiminos]

So, the man-consensus here by resident experts is that Elliot Rodgers wasn't an MRA. I have to wonder why this is such a sensitive issue for you all? What exactly are you defending? It seems as if you're worried that this psycho kid will damage the good reputation of MRAs or something...I'm not saying you are, but it really boggles the mind why you are directing such vigor towards denouncing people who suggest that he was an MRA or that this mass murder stems from misogyny.

You're doing more than a suggesting, you're trying to assert a fact, and in doing so, you are bordering on defamation.

 

[Rashiminos]

Quoted for future reference:

Spoiler :

So, the man-consensus here by resident experts is that Elliot Rodgers wasn't an MRA. I have to wonder why this is such a sensitive issue for you all? What exactly are you defending? It seems as if you're worried that this psycho kid will damage the good reputation of MRAs or something...I'm not saying you are, but it really boggles the mind why you are directing such vigor towards denouncing people who suggest that he was an MRA or that this mass murder stems from misogyny.

Fine, let's talk about his MRA qualities.

Some people are getting caught up on the idea that he supposedly did not explicitly identify as an MRA, and this therefore absolves him of membership in such a group. I have already argued that this explicit self-identification is not necessary, and it remains unchallenged. I will also prove that this statement about Rodgers is false, that he did identify as an MRA, and did display many of the classic characteristics of MRAs, such that even if he did not explicitly identify as one, he was still in all practice and form an MRA.

First, regarding his MRA qualities. This TIME article about the Men's Rights Movement describes its basic beliefs and motivations.



Furthermore, the wikipedia article on the movement:



There's a lot more to the Men's Rights Movement, but the core which supports all their reasoning and positions is the above: a reaction to feminism encroaching upon traditionally male purviews, including behavior.

Now, to Rodgers' behavior.

I have previously demonstrated his hatred of feminism and women-blaming due to entitlement. I will reproduce this below, using quotations from Rodgers' writings cited in this NPR story.



Here we have the prime qualities of an MRA: anti-feminism and women-blaming.

Further, let us investigate his 141-page autobiography.









If you required more proof than this of his anti-feminist, MRA qualities, then there is probably no amount that will satiate you.

However, allow me to indulge. Let us move on to whether or not he had contact with, or identified with, the Men's Rights Movement at all.

Perhaps the simplest way is to check the subscriptions page of this prolific Youtuber.

Among his subscriptions are such MRA groups as:

The Player Supreme Show" which rails against the feminization of men and talks about how to pick up women.

"RSDfreetour" which is a series of self-help seminars run by RSD Nation, a "pick up artist" site.

There's also a user called McHenry Cruiser who in addition to being a pickup artist is a comedian who has some kind of beef with Louis CK, and another called "Squatting Cassanova," who seems to be your average PUA.

Furthermore, Rodgers referred to himself as an "incel," short for "involuntary celibate," which is a very common term MRAs and PUAs use for virgins. It identifies women as being at fault for a man's virginity.

Here is another article which details some of his comments and messages left on Youtube and other message boards:



It should be plainly evident now that Rodger was at the very least inside the Men's Rights Movement's orbit, and that the parallels between his ideology and theirs are much more than coincidental: a direct and casual connection can be demonstrated.

Finally, let's look at the behavior of some of his forum mates.

This extremely brave author in the PUAHate website's chat rooms, and recorded some shocking things.
















*For reference, George Sodini was the man who killed 3 women and injured at least ten others when he opened fire on a gym in Pennsylvania a few years ago because women wouldn't sleep with him, much to the approval of misogynists.



In addition to the PUAHate support, Rodgers has also had sympathy voiced for him on Twitter. The tweets are images, so I'm not going to reproduce them in this post, but if you follow the link you can read the article with the images posted at the relevant times.

*********

So, as you can see, Rodgers frequented MRA sites and interacted with their ideology on a day to day basis. His stated mission and motivations were identical to those stated by MRAs, and his actions were widely praised by MRAs as brave and heroic, worthy of emulation and commendation. Elliot Rodgers was an MRA, who murdered 6 people, women and men, out of misogyny, and because of patriarchy.

At this point, we shall stop pretending that either of these was not the case.

 

[cardgame]

First, regarding his MRA qualities. This TIME article about the Men's Rights Movement describes its basic beliefs and motivations.

Quote:

MRAs believe the traditionally oppressed groups have somehow seized control and taken away their white male privilege. They tap into fear and insecurity and turn it into blame and rage. Often the leaders of these groups are men who feel as though they got screwed in a divorce. They quote all sorts of statistics about child custody and unfair alimony payments, because in their minds, the single mother who has to choose between feeding the kids or paying the rent is a myth. They believe passionately in their own victimhood and their creed goes something like this: Women are trying to keep us down, usurp all our power, taking away what it means to be a man.

hahahahaha, what a hatchet job.

nice context-less poster of the 'don't be that girl' campaign in the 'article' as well.


This kid felt he was entitled not because of his maleness and patriarchy (that absurd everyboogieman again) but because of his narcissism - you know, that thing that goes hand in hand with entitlement?

Here, more narcissism

perhaps best expressed in Rodgers' own words:

It would be a day in which I exact my ultimate retribution and revenge on all of the hedonistic scum who enjoyed lives of pleasure that they don’t deserve. If I can’t have it, I will destroy it.

I think this can be blamed on toddler-level mentality better than 'patriarchy'. If I can't have this toy, I'll break it, so nobody can have it! This is not the result of patriarchy. A toddler is not absorbing and showcasing patriarchal attitudes by destroying a toy when ordered to share - a toddler is being a toddler.