Daghdha
Absent Minded
Draft has been mailed to Babes, RF's twist 'n all Here It Is. Hopefully we'll have it sealed before we get Feudie and start the cultural war.
Diplo for Team BABE
- Thread starter killercane
- Start date
killercane
Deity
Could you diplomats find out from BABEs what the relative strengths of the armies are for each of the others and what they historically have been since they have met? There is one civ that has a 5th rated military service record, and I think we can learn a lot about the others intentions by identifying who that is.
We are 4th in military strength (Per war academy article: Military Service: 10 years * # of military units / # of citizens. Military units are units with an attack and defense value, so workers, scouts and princesses don't count. Kings do. So at the start of a mass regicide game you will have a military service of 70 years because of the 7 military units *10 years divided by just your 1 citizen. 0 years if you have no army or you have just a few units, but thousands of population points.).
We are #1 in population and only have 18 warriors and a few ships, so it would stand that we should be last in military strength. At the start of the golden age we were 5th in military service (post by JB on like page 5 of Dept. of Turnplay) so that should serve as a jumping off point. BABES should be strong against most civs, but hopefully there is one that they are average to. I would especially like to know if they are average to FREE, who would be points leader and most likely to be last due to high pop. If they are last then I dont think we would face a military invasion anytime soon (the galley-knight thing); if not, then the last place team has to be Saber or Council which would bode well for BABEs in a military advance and mean those two or one are building up their pop base while doing military. Its still kinda guesswork but does that make sense?
We are 4th in military strength (Per war academy article: Military Service: 10 years * # of military units / # of citizens. Military units are units with an attack and defense value, so workers, scouts and princesses don't count. Kings do. So at the start of a mass regicide game you will have a military service of 70 years because of the 7 military units *10 years divided by just your 1 citizen. 0 years if you have no army or you have just a few units, but thousands of population points.).
We are #1 in population and only have 18 warriors and a few ships, so it would stand that we should be last in military strength. At the start of the golden age we were 5th in military service (post by JB on like page 5 of Dept. of Turnplay) so that should serve as a jumping off point. BABES should be strong against most civs, but hopefully there is one that they are average to. I would especially like to know if they are average to FREE, who would be points leader and most likely to be last due to high pop. If they are last then I dont think we would face a military invasion anytime soon (the galley-knight thing); if not, then the last place team has to be Saber or Council which would bode well for BABEs in a military advance and mean those two or one are building up their pop base while doing military. Its still kinda guesswork but does that make sense?
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Pm to Whomp:
...and the answer
Spoiler :
...and the answer
Spoiler :
killercane
Deity
Quote:
Originally Posted by killercane
Sorry about the save I just assumed it was gonna be there! 2 things real quick: 1) Just to confirm delivery of Mono, you need it on your 110 or 111? and 2) What is the word on our treaty and were there still some sticking points? How goes things with the Sabre invasion?
KC
From Whomp:
Oops. Forgot to send it back. I'll bump it tonight.
If you can get mono on 110 that would be great. Saber is asking how much we want for techs from Glib so I sent it back saying we're conflicted on how much considering it would be equivalent to 40 turns if they had to research.
From Wotan
No prob, the culprits are FREE. They seem to have some serious issues lately with sloppy turn handling.
We need Mono when we open the save on turn 110. So you need to gift it to us on turn 109.
Saber is a bit tricky. Not only do we need to produce a good pile of units, they also need to be shipped to SABER so it is still some time before we can seriously do any harm to them.
On SABER please be advised they are still down a lot of techs, none added to their known techs for ages. that would suggest they to go for GLib. They have also joined workers at an alarming rate to the coastal town south of the starting position. It is now size 12, that cost a lot of happiness so they pay a lot of gold to keep it running at that size. Still lacking Literacy but that can change rapidly with a quick switch from Palace pre build to finish the GLib. When is the GLib due at your end? Any chance of boosting that build through worker joining? Or is the town already at size 12?
Wotan
Originally Posted by killercane
Sorry about the save I just assumed it was gonna be there! 2 things real quick: 1) Just to confirm delivery of Mono, you need it on your 110 or 111? and 2) What is the word on our treaty and were there still some sticking points? How goes things with the Sabre invasion?
KC
From Whomp:
Oops. Forgot to send it back. I'll bump it tonight.
If you can get mono on 110 that would be great. Saber is asking how much we want for techs from Glib so I sent it back saying we're conflicted on how much considering it would be equivalent to 40 turns if they had to research.
From Wotan
No prob, the culprits are FREE. They seem to have some serious issues lately with sloppy turn handling.
We need Mono when we open the save on turn 110. So you need to gift it to us on turn 109.
Saber is a bit tricky. Not only do we need to produce a good pile of units, they also need to be shipped to SABER so it is still some time before we can seriously do any harm to them.
On SABER please be advised they are still down a lot of techs, none added to their known techs for ages. that would suggest they to go for GLib. They have also joined workers at an alarming rate to the coastal town south of the starting position. It is now size 12, that cost a lot of happiness so they pay a lot of gold to keep it running at that size. Still lacking Literacy but that can change rapidly with a quick switch from Palace pre build to finish the GLib. When is the GLib due at your end? Any chance of boosting that build through worker joining? Or is the town already at size 12?
Wotan
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Ehhhh....., oh right:
killercane
Deity
We can do a couple of things RE: GL. Sugar Mountain is at 326 shields next turn, and should produce 20+ after golden age @ size 10, 20 sh. next turn, 2 workers addable, but two hills not mined yet to use them. 9 workers cant begin work on the second hill until turn 3 from now. So probably 5 more turns including next one. This city will be much faster to Leos/Sun Tsus if we want to risk a 1 turn delay.
DSOTM will make 18 shields/turn and is already at size 12. It has 319 in the box IIRC. I dont think we can get it to 20 spt since it will starve. So there is probably a 1 turn difference there. Which place should we put it? It would be nice to run WLTKD again, but our Mono research wont be on time; BABEs cant have it both ways!
DSOTM will make 18 shields/turn and is already at size 12. It has 319 in the box IIRC. I dont think we can get it to 20 spt since it will starve. So there is probably a 1 turn difference there. Which place should we put it? It would be nice to run WLTKD again, but our Mono research wont be on time; BABEs cant have it both ways!
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
If we came back to the Babes and asked, "Mono on time and GL one turn later, or GL one turn earlier and Mono delayed one turn" I'm willing to bet they would elect to get the GL one turn earlier.
I PM'ed Whomper and asked how the treaty was looking in the Babe congress. We shall see.
BTW, in our treaty I doubt we've covered the topic of land division. We don't really care to extend our empire but it would seem logical that everyone else does if Conquest/Domination is the victory of choice.
If the Babes bring up the topic of land division what should be our response? Since holding lands on distant shores would be very difficult there's obvious pro's and con's for trying to keep gains.
The first and most likely scenario is for the Babes to visit Sabre. We would really not play a direct part in that and therefore it would be up to the Babes as to what to do with those spoils and how to maintain/defend them.
I'm rambling so I'll stop there.... Just food for thought.
I PM'ed Whomper and asked how the treaty was looking in the Babe congress. We shall see.
BTW, in our treaty I doubt we've covered the topic of land division. We don't really care to extend our empire but it would seem logical that everyone else does if Conquest/Domination is the victory of choice.
If the Babes bring up the topic of land division what should be our response? Since holding lands on distant shores would be very difficult there's obvious pro's and con's for trying to keep gains.
The first and most likely scenario is for the Babes to visit Sabre. We would really not play a direct part in that and therefore it would be up to the Babes as to what to do with those spoils and how to maintain/defend them.
I'm rambling so I'll stop there.... Just food for thought.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
If they bring division up we'll pretend to bother a day, then we'll say "no part should have more than 50% until the other are all gone, then it's up for grabs".
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
A conversation w/ Whomper where he tells me that the Babes settled the one tile jungle island off of the Sabre coast! I'm totally amused.
If the map is true to the game then that tile could have been home to what resource other than Rubber?
Spoiler :
If the map is true to the game then that tile could have been home to what resource other than Rubber?
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
The Babes are going to consider investigating Sabre's wonder city(s), that they know of, and I've offered to split the cost w/ them.
In conjunction with that Whomp was considering some ploy to make Sabre feel as if they've committed some major breach of faith if they're found to be building the GLib. But if they're going to beat us to it then there's nothing that could be done to stop them.
In conjunction with that Whomp was considering some ploy to make Sabre feel as if they've committed some major breach of faith if they're found to be building the GLib. But if they're going to beat us to it then there's nothing that could be done to stop them.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
I'd love to have Babes peek into that lil village of theirs. I wonder what have made them pick up the speed by joining workers? Newly accuired luxes? Panic?
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
That is a good investment. Ask Whomper to do it.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
PM to Whomp and Wotan....
Daghdha
Absent Minded
On the treaty, we didn't specify what to do w/ the load of techs we'll get from GLib. We've sent Babes Construction and they have sent us a bunch. Should we share the whole darn bunch (Eng/Ino/Guns/?) or get some payment? I guess some poor b-tard will have to count beaker cost here....
Oh, bopsie daisy, time flies. Gotta go guys.
Oh, bopsie daisy, time flies. Gotta go guys.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
Ya, Whomper and I were pretty confidant that with these two teams we could come up w/ a fair solution whether it be shared techs, gold, or any combination of the two.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
PM's and responses from Whomp and Wotan.
How would Whomp's suggested tech delivery penalty affect us if we decided we had evolved as far was we needed? Frankly, I think we're going to need to keep up the tech pace w/ the Babes through Astro and Steam. But that's just my opinion.
I understand about the investigation. We were just looking for some instant gratification. Besides, my hypothesis is that that's not their GLib city.
Put the penalty into writing and send it back. I'll grease the skids over here to start debate.
Hold Feud until requested.
How would Whomp's suggested tech delivery penalty affect us if we decided we had evolved as far was we needed? Frankly, I think we're going to need to keep up the tech pace w/ the Babes through Astro and Steam. But that's just my opinion.
Whomp said:I got denied on the investigation thing. Everyone felt it's either done or it's not since it wouldn't change anything.
I'll get the treaty done. I forgot to mention it.Would you be adverse to a discussing a gpt penalty for each turn over what's discussed for research? 20gpt or something to keep everyone honest?
I understand about the investigation. We were just looking for some instant gratification. Besides, my hypothesis is that that's not their GLib city.
Put the penalty into writing and send it back. I'll grease the skids over here to start debate.
Wotan said:
Hold Feud until requested.
killercane
Deity
Dont we want Feudalism right away? Lets get the treaty signed asap. Whomp might be stalling. The investigation would help us a lot to see if we can put GL in DSOTM a turn or two later. Can we offer to pay for that totally (the investigation)?
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Babes stalling on the treaty? Yes, maybe. If so, what's their gain? The penalty will be an issue when we discuss ETA for techs we research. We might say
"Yup, we'll do Chemistry. It'll take 15 turns"
"No Way! At 100% that should take 6 at the most"
"Correct, but we're in no hurry so we go 30%"
"But you have to go 100%"
"Nothing in treaty says 100%. Just that we pay 20gpt for each turn
more than 15"
"We connot accept that"
"Oh well, then the tech part is on hold. Bye then"
My point is we can choose research pace as we wish even w/ a fine, as long as we honestly state our ETA.
"Yup, we'll do Chemistry. It'll take 15 turns"
"No Way! At 100% that should take 6 at the most"
"Correct, but we're in no hurry so we go 30%"
"But you have to go 100%"
"Nothing in treaty says 100%. Just that we pay 20gpt for each turn
more than 15"
"We connot accept that"
"Oh well, then the tech part is on hold. Bye then"
My point is we can choose research pace as we wish even w/ a fine, as long as we honestly state our ETA.
From my warmongering and cheeky part of the brain it could be they might be stalling everything because the minute we get the GLib a fleet of galleys of MW-babes arrive at our coast. With Pyramids and GLib and almost no military we are a juicy target.
Not very likely, but that would come to my mind why they could be delaying the treaty. Just a thought.
Not very likely, but that would come to my mind why they could be delaying the treaty. Just a thought.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
I would raze both cities and gift every tech we have to Sabre before I would let them benefit from either wonder.
