DMOC's DEITY Game #1 - Gandhi
- Thread starter DMOC
- Start date
PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
The war obviously was good news, even if it didn't last long. Wang and Cyrus are now enemies for life so you don't have to worry about them attacking you any more.
Pretty nice of Wang to gift you Monarchy, though.
Thoughts on the Philo trades:
-Currency is a must-have. Economic bonus = always nice.
-MC is a bit less useful but is nice to have.
-Construction can be considered, depends if it's a prereq for your liberalism tech. If not it counts against WFYABTA.
-Feudalism can be asked for but it's a tech you don't really need. Wang doesn't have it yet so you can consider it if he gets a tech you want.
-Everything else only counts against WFYABTA.
Pretty nice of Wang to gift you Monarchy, though.
Thoughts on the Philo trades:
-Currency is a must-have. Economic bonus = always nice.
-MC is a bit less useful but is nice to have.
-Construction can be considered, depends if it's a prereq for your liberalism tech. If not it counts against WFYABTA.
-Feudalism can be asked for but it's a tech you don't really need. Wang doesn't have it yet so you can consider it if he gets a tech you want.
-Everything else only counts against WFYABTA.
DMOC
Mathematician
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Good suggestions, PaulusIII. Yes, Currency is a must-have and more valuable than anything else at the moment.
I'm undecided on whether I should research Fishing-Sailing-Calendar (or trade for it) before researching Civil Service because Calender is a prerequisite of Liberalism. I THINK, I need to check this somewhere.
Yes, that's my plan. Hopefully Egypt will head for techs like Divine Right instead of the military ones.
Although I will need to prepare for the unhappiness that comes from defying the AP since Egypt will probably use it to stop the war.
I'm undecided on whether I should research Fishing-Sailing-Calendar (or trade for it) before researching Civil Service because Calender is a prerequisite of Liberalism. I THINK, I need to check this somewhere.
Yes, that's my plan. Hopefully Egypt will head for techs like Divine Right instead of the military ones.
Although I will need to prepare for the unhappiness that comes from defying the AP since Egypt will probably use it to stop the war.
PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
Nope, only Philosophy and Education. Calendar would be useless at the moment.
What are you considering for Liberalism?
What are you considering for Liberalism?
DMOC
Mathematician
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I would go for the "standard" Nationalism, just because a future Great Scientist could lightbulb Printing Press or something that leads to Rifling. I don't think I have much hope of building the Taj Mahal but I could generate a Great Person in the capital with Pacifism+Philosophical trait to start a Golden Age. This, in turn, could enable me to get a Great Merchant out of the capital quickly to upgrade some CR1 maces that I produce beforehand into rifles.
Melior Traiano
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 220
I think this has to do with how one-sided a trade deal is. If the values of both ends of the deal are roughly equal, then you shouldn't get demerits. But an AI like Sitting Bull wouldn't trade unless he gets a significantly better deal than you, so you would likely pick up demerits with his worst enemy.
SnowlyWhite
Emperor
you're spiritual, you have ap religion on your continent, you have stone, cyrus is pissed with wang and doesn't care too much about diff. religion, wang will like you for fav. civic(you need to switch to slavery only in 5 turn shots for whipping), ramses could be taken to friendly. UoS seems solid. It'll be worse later when you get the jewish holy city for yourself as you'll get additional demerits, but hey... life's a . .. .. .. .. . 
Calendar is important only if you want astro out of lib.(which could be a decent option, though I'd like economics more - nat. seems to have a dubious value without marble and you can probably trade for it post taj for lib/economics and get a +4 fair relations to boot). I'd definitely take feud and trade it to wang - keeps economics route open(you need feud. for guilds, for banking) and well... a free tech is a free tech especially since you don't have a wfybta counter with the other continent yet. Feud/currency/mc/possibly calendar if you're sure the guy you trade for feud and wang won't trade philo to the 3rd guy themselves till you self research sailing.
Calendar is important only if you want astro out of lib.(which could be a decent option, though I'd like economics more - nat. seems to have a dubious value without marble and you can probably trade for it post taj for lib/economics and get a +4 fair relations to boot). I'd definitely take feud and trade it to wang - keeps economics route open(you need feud. for guilds, for banking) and well... a free tech is a free tech especially since you don't have a wfybta counter with the other continent yet. Feud/currency/mc/possibly calendar if you're sure the guy you trade for feud and wang won't trade philo to the 3rd guy themselves till you self research sailing.
DMOC
Mathematician
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- 5,594
I guess I'll have to be extra attentive next round in finding out of any Great Merchants were born on the other continent. After all, I wouldn't want to miss out on the free merchant. But then again, I could try and run about 5-8 merchants in the capital after Liberalism. 
I will consider the University of Sankore. I'm not going to try building Angkor Wat as someone on the other continent will likely build it.
I will consider the University of Sankore. I'm not going to try building Angkor Wat as someone on the other continent will likely build it.
Avatarz
Chieftain
Just wondering - what would you do if someone declared a war on you? You don`t seem that stong in military terms at all...
DMOC
Mathematician
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It is impossible for someone to declare on me at this point. Ramesses is pleased and Wang and Cyrus hate each other.
I think my entire army is composed of 3 warriors and 4 archers.
I would disband one of the warriors to save upkeep, but I want to save them for Hereditary Rule happiness.silverbullet
King
DMOC, I don't think Cyrus is 100% guaranteed not to declare on you. If he decides to go to war, WK is more likely to be a target than you, but at cautious, you are still a potential target, and if the RNG hates you, he will declare on you. Try getting him pleased quickly, even if some gifts are needed.
Dirk1302
Deity
Based on the code Cyrus will always choose Kong for the next declaration.Kong and DMOC are both possible targets, in the code there's a function startWarVal that decides which target is more desirable. Since Cyrus is cautious with DMOC, annoyed with Kong the latter gets a *2 modifier in this function compared to DMOC and this'll decide the issue since other things are roughly equal. Only if Kong's power will get so high that Cyrus won't declare on Kong anymore will DMOC be in danger.
silverbullet
King
Thanks Dirk, that's good to know. How much power does Wong need to avoid declaration? 1.5 times Cyrus's power?
Dirk1302
Deity
@silverbullet,
Strictly speaking all i'm going to say here is in DanF's post, i did do some tests outputting values from real games to quantify the rules he lists and get a better insight in which values are most important.
The somewhat simplified formula for Cyrus to attack Kong (or DMOC for that matter) is:
if iDefensivePower < iOurPower * (AI_maxWarNearbyPowerRatio /100) then
<Cyrus has greenlight to attack>
In this formula:
iDefensivePower is 2/3 * Kong's or DMOC's power
iOurpower is Cyrus's power
AI_maxWarNearbyPowerRatio= 100. It's an XML value for Cyrus.
Fill in all the values and indeed for Kong (or DMOC) to be save his real power must be > 1.5 * Cyrus's power. It's the multiplication of the real defensive power * 2/3 that makes these threshold values so high.
Kong getting > 1.5 of Cyrus's power is not something that's likely to happen as Cyrus is more prone to build units than Kong. And as long as Kong doesn't reach the threshold value he will be the chosen target unless he gets to cautious too with Cyrus. From what i've seen in the code and the tests the main factor then will be the number of tiles bordering Cyrus.
As it such an important post i'll post a link again to DanF's article.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7190899&postcount=84
Strictly speaking all i'm going to say here is in DanF's post, i did do some tests outputting values from real games to quantify the rules he lists and get a better insight in which values are most important.
The somewhat simplified formula for Cyrus to attack Kong (or DMOC for that matter) is:
if iDefensivePower < iOurPower * (AI_maxWarNearbyPowerRatio /100) then
<Cyrus has greenlight to attack>
In this formula:
iDefensivePower is 2/3 * Kong's or DMOC's power
iOurpower is Cyrus's power
AI_maxWarNearbyPowerRatio= 100. It's an XML value for Cyrus.
Fill in all the values and indeed for Kong (or DMOC) to be save his real power must be > 1.5 * Cyrus's power. It's the multiplication of the real defensive power * 2/3 that makes these threshold values so high.
Kong getting > 1.5 of Cyrus's power is not something that's likely to happen as Cyrus is more prone to build units than Kong. And as long as Kong doesn't reach the threshold value he will be the chosen target unless he gets to cautious too with Cyrus. From what i've seen in the code and the tests the main factor then will be the number of tiles bordering Cyrus.
As it such an important post i'll post a link again to DanF's article.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7190899&postcount=84
DMOC
Mathematician
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
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- 5,594
Good stuff there, dirk. I will keep this in mind. I could also try and bribe Wang Kon into a war with Cyrus since he's willing to (the option isn't redded out, but I don't have an expensive-enough tech). But I'd rather not. And I can't bribe Cyrus into warring Wang.
I won't be updating for at least a few more days but look for one by the first week of January.
I won't be updating for at least a few more days but look for one by the first week of January.
Dirk1302
Deity
Better not bribe them to war, in the enforced 10 turns peace treaty after their war you will be in danger as you will probably be the chosen target if Cyrus decides on war in those 10 turns. Even worse Cyrus could win and vassalize Kong, in that case you'd need Cyrus pleased for sure. Just keep relations at cautious and you'll be fine regarding Cyrus.
Avatarz
Chieftain
Ok, so according to the formulas given here you are not likely to become a possible target and are therefore safe, but let`s imagine that someone actually does declare war on you - what do you do? Aren`t you pretty much doomed?
