DO NOT CONGRATULATE

[red_elk]

If I lived in Russia I'd be wary of telling strangers what I thought of Putin.

If you lived in Russia, you would probably not have such strong prejudices.
Search Russian blogs, you'll find thousands of people who openly say they dislike or hate Putin. I doubt we are much different from the USA on that matter.

If Putin was so popular why stuff ballot boxes? Why eliminate serious competitors?

Well, that's my point, elections weren't rigged. How many serious violations did you see, except some old ladies stuffing two ballots (second one probably for her husband), or balloons floating in front of the camera?
Mind you, there was online broadcasting from ~50 thousand cameras, some violations would pop out pretty much inevitably.
The only serious violation I'm aware about, was in one election site in Moscow region - they inflated turnout rate.

What's your theory - Russia is DPRK-like police state, Putin has real 10% popularity but always fakes all elections and ratings?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

What's your theory - Russia is DPRK-like police state, Putin has real 10% popularity but always fakes all elections and ratings?

No, Russia is DPRK like police state, where a voter goes to the voting booth and the ballot only has one recognizable name on it, because the state run media has been blasting that one name nonstop throughout the campaign while the opposition has been reduced to handing out flyers on a street corner. That's why Putin, and Kim Jong-un, enjoy such popularity...they are the only candidate that most people have even heard of.

 

[rah]

Is it true that one of his opponents was jailed on quasi trumped up charges and another was disallowed from the ballot.

 

[red_elk]

because the state run media has been blasting that one name nonstop throughout the campaign while the opposition has been reduced to handing out flyers on a street corner.

Not to sound picky, but where did you get that? Last time I checked, candidates had public debates on Russian state-run TV.
I'm not really a link man, but it looks like you are inventing things.

 

[rah]

At least Putin probably doesn't have to pay for his ads. Candidates spend over 100 millions dollars in the recent PRIMARY race for governor in Illinois this week. What a waste. Think how many children we could have educated or even fed for that amount. So two rich guys can battle it out. It's sickening.

 

[Gori the Grey]

For what it's worth, some kids do get fed. The kids of the people who work at the ad firms, placard shops, etc. The money doesn't just disappear.

Not altogether defending the amount of money that we spend on our elections, which seems excessive and out of control to me as well. But still . . .

 

[sophie]

Oh, it can too be too soon: if you haven't yet asked "what about Benghazi?"

One at a time, ONE AT A TIME!

But what about his birth certificate though?

 

[sophie]

I don't have that big of a problem with him congratulating him. Politicians and World leaders lie to each other all the time.
But the continual don't bother listening to your advisers is troubling. And the leaking of that information is the most troubling.
Whatta place to work. Trust and respect.

Congratulating a foreign leader who was tied directly to a terrorist attack on one of your closest allies? Whom that closest ally had formally condemned less than a week prior? And because of whom you (the president) are under investigation for alleged ties/collusion to Russia?

Politicians and World leaders lie to each other all the time. Politicians and World Leaders very seldom throw close allies under the bus or do actions that will result in a loss of political power or legitimacy for seemingly no material gain.

 

[Kyriakos]

Not to sound picky, but where did you get that? Last time I checked, candidates had public debates on Russian state-run TV.
I'm not really a link man, but it looks like you are inventing things.

Doesn't the average russian also have easy access to the web?
Are any sites blocked by a wall like in the great cyberwall of China?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Doesn't the average russian also have easy access to the web?
Are any sites blocked by a wall like in the great cyberwall of China?

Blocked sites or no, do you think Ivan HeyImACandidate gets traffic to their site on the same scale that Putin does? How many Russian media sites link to Ivan? How many link to Vlad?

 

[Kyriakos]

Blocked sites or no, do you think Ivan HeyImACandidate gets traffic to their site on the same scale that Putin does? How many Russian media sites link to Ivan? How many link to Vlad?

Well, no, but the time before that (iirc time just before this, but maybe a while back; i recall Maher doing an interview with Kasparov for the occasion) Putin was against Kasparov, the world-famous chess champion. Putin still won.

 

[red_elk]

Doesn't the average russian also have easy access to the web?

I believe we have about the same percentage of people connected to the Internet as USA.
Just checked, yes, Russia has 110 millions internet users, 6-th place in the world and first in Europe.

Are any sites blocked by a wall like in the great cyberwall of China?

Some things are blocked, like torrent trackers, CP, sites with suicide instructions, ISIS propaganda, etc.
Blocking is ineffective though, can be bypassed by simple proxy. I did it several times to access rutracker.org.
(Don't tell anybody, or they'll send me to GULAG )

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I believe we have about the same percentage of people connected to the Internet as USA.
Just checked, yes, Russia has 110 millions internet users, 6-th place in the world and first in Europe.

Whoa, hold up. 110 out of 144 is only like 76%. US is 89% and if you leave out people over 50 who just flat refuse it runs out in the very high nineties, like 98%. Not that having access changes the question of whether internet users can be reached by candidates that aren't backed by the state apparatus.

That's my big problem with Russia's elections. Kellyanne Conway may be able to violate the Hatch act and have Trump promote her, but at least we have the Hatch act. Trump can't travel around on the taxpayer's dime when he runs for re-election using the federal deficit to finance his campaign. Nobody in Russia can afford to campaign like Putin, because Putin doesn't have to pay for it.

 

[red_elk]

Whoa, hold up. 110 out of 144 is only like 76%. US is 89% and if you leave out people over 50 who just flat refuse it runs out in the very high nineties, like 98%.

I got data from English wiki, if it's wrong then my bad:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users
It says 76.41% for Russia and 76.18% for USA

Not that having access changes the question of whether internet users can be reached by candidates that aren't backed by the state apparatus.

But internet users can get information from wherever they want, aren't they?
There are hundreds of news sites, including opposition ones. Some Western media have internet sites in Russian, like BBC, Euronews off the top of my head.

 

[red_elk]

Look, I'm not saying Russia is a perfect place to live, that it's well functioning democracy, etc. Far from it. We have lots of different problems, including problems with the government system.
But in terms of personal freedoms in daily life, Russia is not much different from Western countries. And I have personal experience to compare these things.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Look, I'm not saying Russia is a perfect place to live, that it's well functioning democracy, etc. Far from it. We have lots of different problems, including problems with the government system.
But in terms of personal freedoms in daily life, Russia is not much different from Western countries. And I have personal experience to compare these things.

I'm not doubting you, actually. The issue of how to keep political power from being grabbed exclusively by the rich when the cost of campaigning is obscene is a gigantic challenge...in every country. Certainly not just in yours.

The only person I ever had a genuine respect for as a "representative" was a city councilman who did, in fact, knock on every front door in his district at least once. Not everyone had a chance to talk to him. In fact more weren't at home than were when he came by, but he did knock on every door and talked to anyone that answered. He served five terms.

But in a nation of 144 million 'representative government' comes down to marketing, not responsible representation, and marketing is just a function of money.

 

[red_elk]

I'm not doubting you, actually. The issue of how to keep political power from being grabbed exclusively by the rich when the cost of campaigning is obscene is a gigantic challenge...in every country. Certainly not just in yours.

I'm quite skeptical about democracy in general, to be honest. Even in most fair elections we still elect rich populist instead of the most skilled governor. Good PR campaign can do miracles - in 1996 we elected half-conscious drunkard as a president thanks to US help (BTW, it was a spectacular moment when U.S. quite openly meddled in our elections to prevent communist from coming to power). You have quite interesting track record too, with GWB and Trump.

 

[Berzerker]

I didn't realize open and angry dissent was met with indifference in Russia, all I hear about is people being assassinated or jailed

I'm sorry for painting such a dire portrait of Putin's Russia

 

[FriendlyFire]

Trump's goal is getting Putin's help on a range of issues. Thats the context. You're ignoring context while accusing me of ignoring context. FF provided other context - Putin's a bad man - and I showed he was a bad man when Obama congratulated him - context. Now, I dont know if that decision was unilateral any more than you know Obama's wasn't. I assume both Presidents had people giving different advice and arse kissing won out.

Like I said Russia are the bad guys for Chechnya and killing tens of thousands then US is also the bad guys for Invading Iraq and Afghanistan and killing ten of thousands
I too can change the context to suit my argument

The problem is that Russia and US relationships in 2012 is different to Russia and US relationship in 2018
Which is why this time it is draw more media condemnation this time around

 

[Berzerker]

The relationship between Trump and Putin is far better than it was under Obama and Putin... and the media outrage is based on who is, or was in the WH. Obama got a pass, Trump doesn't. Course the Democrat media is pissed off about Putin helping Trump get elected.