Trump Is Making America So Goddamn Dumb

[Lexicus]

(And I would expect you of all people to be on board for that premise!)

I mean, generally speaking, I am, but I'm not into the whole idea of ideologically-neutral 'qualifications' for the Presidency.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I'm not sure my comments on this matter presuppose "ideologically-neutral" qualifications for the Presidency.

But on reflection, if "the ability to understand complex systems" is such a thing, then I suppose would be happy to be counted as someone who does believe in that sort of qualification.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Does the working class support the wall and renegotiating trade deals? Big business doesn't. Ross Perot tapped into the working class pool and was ridiculed for his 'giant sucking sound'. He shows the (a) divide in this country between the classes. Naturally the media from both Democrats and Republicans ganged up on him since Wall St was/is heavily invested in the status quo. If you're importing cheaper stuff you dont want no politician threatening tariffs. Perot started a movement and several people tried to take over the reigns when he vacated his position, Trump was one of them.

A free wall that mexico will pay for ? sure
Free healthcare that will be so easy I want that too
Good paying low skill jobs will come back to the US as well
Trump will get amazing trade deals better then the TPP for farmers
And no deficets within eight years

Sounds amazing I too would vote for that, when dose the Winning start Berzerker ?

As for Tariffs, well you about to learn by urinating onto the electrical fence why you dont impose large tariffs without planning or forthrought.

 

[innonimatu]

Trump doesn't make his base crazy. They like him because they are already crazy.
The only people he's driving to insanity are "moderate liberals" who are now looking back at friggin George W. Bush and thinking "This guy actually wasn't that bad."

He's tacky, loud and antiintellectual.
He has !working class appeal" because apart from the golf he doesn't behave like a rich rich person, he behaves like the sitcom version of an uneducated slob who just won the lottery. At least on the surface. He probably never had a job where he had a boss, and I wouldn't be surprised if he never drove his own car or bought his own groceries or cooked his own meal.

They are not crazy. And the guy is not "antiintellectual", he is merely "anti-pundit". Trump is not dumb, I've been saying and keep saying. Very, very few people could have brushed aside all the opposition he had, jumped into the shark tank in the imperial capital, and actually slowly impose their will on the bureaucracy in place. Trump is smart at handling people, at handling institutional politics, Where the rules of the game would constrain others, he wrecks them. And he knows he can get away with it, how to get away with it. He has been the most ruthlessly efficient politician of this century so far. Bush was dumb. Obama sold out to have it easy (even before being elected). Trump... just rode over everything on the way and had his way! Fear him.

As for his voters, people have had too many talking heads on the media telling them lies, that was what happened, and what brought Trump about. And will bring more. They know that Trump is a wealthy guy who is not in touch with the actual working class. They just hare the alternatives they've been presented with. And they'd rather have a "transparent crook" rather than the usual cynical, patronizing and hypocritical ones. That was why Trump won, and that is why he remains in power.
And I dare say that it was a smarter move to elect him than to elect Hillary, who would simply continue to sell out the working class as Obama did. When did inequalities increase the most, who rearranged laws and institutions to protect finance and make sure that the 0.1% kept increasing their gains at the expense of the others? People simply could not continue to support that organized mob tool that claimed to be the party for the corking class. Fear Trump, but fear more the Obamas and Hillaries...

There is one fine piece (something rare!) in the media that I encourage everyone to read: America, 10 years after the financial crisis.
I shouldn't quote from it because it is long, and masterfully done. It deserves top be read in full. But in short, the "recovery" from the "great financial crisis" was a fraud. Among many other testemonies they have a short piece from an interview with Bannon that identifies why Trump happened:

[The financial crisis] was completely brought on by the elites of the country and Wall Street. When I got to Harvard Business School in 1983, a bunch of professors were coming up with a radical idea that’s had a horrible negative consequence on this country and to the fabric of our society: the maximization of shareholder value; this was preached as High Church theology. The whole thing of the financialization of Wall Street, of looking at people as pure commodities and of outsourcing and globalization, came from the business schools and the financial community that had these radical ideas, and nobody kept them in check.

Here’s the outrage about it: The balance sheet of the Federal Reserve in September 2008 is about $1 trillion. The balance sheet the day Donald Trump raises his hand, after eight years of the most progressive Democrat in recorded history, is $4.5 trillion. The elites save themselves. They just created money. They flooded the zone with liquidity. If you’re an asset holder, if you owned real estate, stocks, or intellectual property, if you’re an owner, you had the best run in human history, okay?

If you’re a deplorable, you got fudged. You know why the deplorables are angry? They’re rational human beings. We took away the risk for the wealthy. Look, you have socialism in this country for the very wealthy and for the very poor. And you have a brutal form of Darwinian capitalism for everybody else. You’re one paycheck away from oblivion. Do you think the founders of this country, you think that’s what they wanted to have in the 21st century? Dude, this is fudged up. The financial collapse talked about the rot at the heart of the system. And they all made it [about] Bernie Madoff. fudge Bernie Madoff, Bernie Madoff’s irrelevant. You have bad guys that scam people all the time in history. It’s always gonna happen. Bernie Madoff’s a little nothingburger.

A socialist "populist" could have ran for the election building on this, to fix this. And one did! But he as pushed away, and allowed himself to be pushed away. That was Sander's unforgivable blunder, to strike a deal with the devil. As many others before, when the time came he was willing to bend, to accommodate the system, to "save the elites"! He defeated himself. Even if he had not won, he'd have made a good show, and brought to the fore issues that urgently needed public attention. The time was nearly right, might have been right who knows? Trump is the wrong person of course, but change is necessary, and it can't be carried out by anyone who accepts compromises.

I think President Trump is nothing but the product of fear. Mostly fear to globalisation and racial fear, but also fear to anyone apparently smarter than oneself. So they switched on TV and voted for the whiter and dumbest thing they found there.

No you are wrong, but only because you are being patronizing. The fear is real, could be said to be of "globalization", though I'd rather say "financialization". But is is not fear of "anyone smarter". Is it smarter to have written the rules of the gave to favour a small class, and co-opt into that class the minority of people without scruples, the psychopaths really, who want to keep those rules in place? The US is a "psycopathocrasy": you succeeed if you are willing to exploit and trample other people, that makes you "smart". You are dumb if you refuse to play that game? I suspect that the mood will soon shift from fear into rage, and we'll see who was smarter after all.

You know, the elites of the small protectorates of an empire can flee when they abuse their "inferiors" too much and get overthrown. There are other protectorates they can live in with their accumulated loot, and there are the imperial centers though life there is more expensive. But where do the elites of the empire flee to if they get overthrown? That is why they will never concede defeat. They will fight because they are cornered. They will stop at nothing to preserve their positions of power. Vhanging the United States and putting an end to its second Gilded Age will be no easy task.

 

[Berzerker]

The Trump Organisation isn't big business?

The Trump organization is a big business, it is not big business

A free wall that mexico will pay for ? sure
Free healthcare that will be so easy I want that too
Good paying low skill jobs will come back to the US as well
Trump will get amazing trade deals better then the TPP for farmers
And no deficets within eight years

Sounds amazing I too would vote for that, when dose the Winning start Berzerker ?

As for Tariffs, well you about to learn by urinating onto the electrical fence why you dont impose large tariffs without planning or forthrought.

He didn't lie about trade... If he caves on his trade war he loses a good chunk of his working class base. Mexico is paying for the wall, Trump's hitting them with tariffs. Consumers pay for the tax but Mexico pays for it with lost revenue transferred to US producers. If the wall costs 5bn and Mexico loses 5bn to the US in trade, Mexico paid for the wall.

 

[FriendlyFire]

He didn't lie about trade... If he caves on his trade war he loses a good chunk of his working class base. Mexico is paying for the wall, Trump's hitting them with tariffs. Consumers pay for the tax but Mexico pays for it with lost revenue transferred to US producers. If the wall costs 5bn and Mexico loses 5bn to the US in trade, Mexico paid for the wall.

If he dosnt cave he loses a chunk of his working class base
In fact if he wins the trade war he will lose an even larger chunk of his working class base

So US wins with the 5bil in Trade tariff on Mexcio, and Mexico loses with its 5bil of retaliatory tariffs on US
Not sure if FAILING MATHS or if Magical Republican Maths or Berzerker making a joke

 

[Berzerker]

If he dosnt cave he loses a chunk of his working class base
In fact if he wins the trade war he will lose an even larger chunk of his working class base

So US wins with the 5bil in Trade tariff on Mexcio, and Mexico loses with its 5bil of retaliatory tariffs on US
Not sure if FAILING MATHS or if Magical Republican Maths or Berzerker making a joke

https://www.thebalance.com/trade-deficit-by-county-3306264

If we hit Mexico with a 5bn tariff, they pay for the wall with their lost revenue. If they retaliate, we up the war. And yes, its a gamble... But if you're one of the people who think we've been making poor trade deals, Trump is doing something about it. Maybe it'll work, maybe not, but the status quo is why Trump got elected.

 

[FriendlyFire]

If we hit Mexico with a 5bn tariff, they pay for the wall with their lost revenue. If they retaliate, we up the war. And yes, its a gamble... But if you're one of the people who think we've been making poor trade deals, Trump is doing something about it. Maybe it'll work, maybe not, but the status quo is why Trump got elected.

We're waist deep in the Big Muddy and the big fool says to push on

Here's a few hints,
Trumps first round of tariffs were so poorly thought out and planned most of the US Tariffs hurt US companies, that's not including the retaliatory tariffs
Trump started six trade wars at the same time
Trump tariffs target raw materials instead of finished goods
Trumps goals for the trade wars are contradictory and diametrically opposing

 

[Hygro]

https://www.thebalance.com/trade-deficit-by-county-3306264

If we hit Mexico with a 5bn tariff, they pay for the wall with their lost revenue. If they retaliate, we up the war. And yes, its a gamble... But if you're one of the people who think we've been making poor trade deals, Trump is doing something about it. Maybe it'll work, maybe not, but the status quo is why Trump got elected.

They pay for a wall with lost revenue? Huh?

 

[Ryika]

We're waist deep in the Big Muddy and the big fool says to push on

Here's a few hints,
Trumps first round of tariffs were so poorly thought out and planned most of the US Tariffs hurt US companies, that's not including the retaliatory tariffs
Trump started six trade wars at the same time
Trump tariffs target raw materials instead of finished goods
Trumps goals for the trade wars are contradictory and diametrically opposing

You just don't understand his 69d chess.

 

[Hygro]

You just don't understand his 69d chess.

More like 69q am i raaaaiiiii

 

[Ryika]

I don't know what that means, but I think you hit the swan right in the head with that one!

 

[FriendlyFire]

They are not crazy. And the guy is not "antiintellectual", he is merely "anti-pundit". Trump is not dumb, I've been saying and keep saying. Very, very few people could have brushed aside all the opposition he had, jumped into the shark tank in the imperial capital, and actually slowly impose their will on the bureaucracy in place. Trump is smart at handling people, at handling institutional politics, Where the rules of the game would constrain others, he wrecks them. And he knows he can get away with it, how to get away with it. He has been the most ruthlessly efficient politician of this century so far. Bush was dumb. Obama sold out to have it easy (even before being elected). Trump... just rode over everything on the way and had his way! Fear him.

As for his voters, people have had too many talking heads on the media telling them lies, that was what happened, and what brought Trump about. And will bring more. They know that Trump is a wealthy guy who is not in touch with the actual working class. They just hare the alternatives they've been presented with. And they'd rather have a "transparent crook" rather than the usual cynical, patronizing and hypocritical ones. That was why Trump won, and that is why he remains in power.
And I dare say that it was a smarter move to elect him than to elect Hillary, who would simply continue to sell out the working class as Obama did. When did inequalities increase the most, who rearranged laws and institutions to protect finance and make sure that the 0.1% kept increasing their gains at the expense of the others? People simply could not continue to support that organized mob tool that claimed to be the party for the corking class. Fear Trump, but fear more the Obamas and Hillaries...

There is one fine piece (something rare!) in the media that I encourage everyone to read: America, 10 years after the financial crisis.
I shouldn't quote from it because it is long, and masterfully done. It deserves top be read in full. But in short, the "recovery" from the "great financial crisis" was a fraud. Among many other testemonies they have a short piece from an interview with Bannon that identifies why Trump happened:

I would call Trump an exceptional good snake oils salesman making an unprecedented outside win.
As for what is about to happen to the very Trump voters whom have elected him into power, the pot is starting to boil as the con is starting to unravel.

Even if you assume Trumps trade war goal is protectionism and not more globalization / free trade. He actions appear from the beginning designed to lose the trade war in the most reckless and ill thought out way possible
In order to switch to a protectionist economy you impose small tariffs in small incremental steps, lay out subsidies for modernization, put in place regulations and plan ahead to minimize damaging your own economy and any long term prospects for trading. Then there is the future industries. In which China been heavily investing in its Education, Infrastructure and research while the US has been slashing Education, Infrastructure and research in order to fund its tax cuts which is going to the rich. But you probably already know this

My analysis is Trump identified a major problem, Identified that Republicans have been selling this lie to their base and he stepped in promising "fantasy" solutions.
This is what snake oil salesmen do, Trump has done this all hes life with hes long history of poorly planned business ending in bankruptcies.

As for Clinton (and Bush) good riddance

 

[Broken_Erika]

Possible scenario:Trump gets thrown out and the next election ends up between Hillary and Jeb Bush......would that be special?

 

[Berzerker]

We're waist deep in the Big Muddy and the big fool says to push on

Here's a few hints,
Trumps first round of tariffs were so poorly thought out and planned most of the US Tariffs hurt US companies, that's not including the retaliatory tariffs
Trump started six trade wars at the same time
Trump tariffs target raw materials instead of finished goods
Trumps goals for the trade wars are contradictory and diametrically opposing

shipping jobs to countries with tariffs on our exports is foolish

They pay for a wall with lost revenue? Huh?

If we import less from Mexico, American producers make up the difference. The money we were sending to Mexico stays here - the wall is built with those funds. Or it'll be a tax on Mexicans coming into the country in addition to tariffs on products crossing the border.

 

[FriendlyFire]

shipping jobs to countries with tariffs on our exports is foolish
If we import less from Mexico, American producers make up the difference. The money we were sending to Mexico stays here - the wall is built with those funds. Or it'll be a tax on Mexicans coming into the country in addition to tariffs on products crossing the border.

Firstly Mexico can retaliate to US taxes targeting Mexicans
Secondly you will have to impose a total of 957 Bil in Total Tariffs in the six trade wars that Trump started before other nations start being Hurt More then the US is being Hurt
Thirdly Mexico retaliatory 1:1 Tariffs negates the benefit of US tariffs
Fourthly I dont think you understand how trade wars works

Example: During the American Civil war the Confederacy started a Trade war with Europe, as a result it didnt mean that Confederate money stayed in the the Confederacy to be spent on the civil war. It meant that cotton industry collapsed as cotton rotted in stockpile left in the open.

EDIT: forget it, we'll revisit this topic again next year

 

[Hygro]

we import less from Mexico, American producers make up the difference. The money we were sending to Mexico stays here - the wall is built with those funds. Or it'll be a tax on Mexicans coming into the country in addition to tariffs on products crossing the border.

It just means we're paying double, one for a wall and one for economic inefficiency.

 

[Farm Boy]

I don't know what that means, but I think you hit the swan right in the head with that one!

When I was about 12, i visited a friend whose parents kept two turkeys. One of them would not stop chasing and attacking us every couple minutes. Maybe it knew its fate, maybe it was just a bird, and turkeys are grade A a- sphincters. Either way, I eventually pitched a piece of scrap metal at it, hard. And much to my horror, I hit it clean on the back of the head. It took off running full speed and tripped over its own face, doing three or four somersaults. Then did that again. And again. And again. Apparently it did this for about three days, yet somehow managed to recover to meet its purpose.

That kid was cool. He didn't do school tho. Genius with small engines, ejected perpetually from class. My parents noted he was in the hall every time they visited. His parents weren't even mad at me for the bird. Helped them later with thier pheasants. Hope he turned out ok, they wound up moving in the great hallowing out. We've preferred corn to men.

I don't think I have a point. Icehouse is zumptin'

 

[Berzerker]

It just means we're paying double, one for a wall and one for economic inefficiency.

its temporary, if the strategy fails the status quo returns, if it succeeds trade treaties are renegotiated

Keeping that money here is better than sending it there to maintain a harmful trade policy

 

[Hygro]

its temporary, if the strategy fails the status quo returns, if it succeeds trade treaties are renegotiated

Keeping that money here is better than sending it there to maintain a harmful trade policy

There is no scarcity of money. Only a scarcity of time, people, and resources. Sending money abroad doesn’t hurt us unless you believe other countries achieving some measure of economic parity (by virtue of buying our tech with their surplus US dollars) is harming us.

Either way mutual economic loss doesn’t sum out to them paying for our hostile border symbol.