Azem.Ocram
King
I decided to no longer mute/hide Cloud, Pat, FB, or Dawg because I enjoy telenovelas too much!
Do US Republicans want a failed state?
- Thread starter aelf
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Ajidica
High Quality Person
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Not sexy enough for a telenovela.
Azem.Ocram
King
Maybe not IRL or in your imagination.
Berzerker
Deity
Thats not true, the Libertarians opposed Jim Crow and the drug war, the two most racist policies over the last 6 decades. And their forerunners were among the abolitionists a century (or 2) earlier. Racists and bigots have rights too, so says the ACLU and the Constitution. Didn't Joe Biden write a bunch of those drug laws? Now we're getting into self righteous territory.
The libertarian philosophy seeks to rid society of unfair/unjust discrimination peacefully, not at the point of a gun. How? Dont associate with racists and bigots. The freedom of association includes a business owner's right to not hire racists and bigots.
Why was Jim Crow the law? Because the racists didn't want to compete with business owners and customers who dont share their racism. So they pointed guns at them... As corporations and people following the jobs moved south it became less racist, peacefully addressing racist attitudes has fewer side effects, less racial tension, less blow back.
Or we can ignore those side effects and point guns
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I know, you will agree soon enough ;D
Patine
Deity
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Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
What’s to disagree with?
Patine
Deity
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I see the true faultlines of socio-political conflict being somewhat different, more nuanced and complex in truth (despite the constant attempts by media and partisan rhetoric to artificially oversimplify it), and not as cliched as you present them. I simply disagree with your presentation of the situation. It strikes me as highly flawed. But, you'll have to wait till tomorrow, at least, if you want a detailed discourse, as I'm probably turning in to bed, tonight.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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I have to agree with that one.
They had a century to work things out peacefully.
Ajidica
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The core of the Abolitionists were certainly not Libertarians as we would understand the term; if only because they were very into the idea of using the government to enact moral and social reform. The core abolitionists were also the ones very eager to use federal troops to forcibly put down the first Klan.
The Civil Rights movement tried doing things peacefully; and they got bombs thrown in their churches, lynchings, police riots, busses firebombed, and dogs set on children.
Pfffft, pull the other one - it has bells on it. It was about political power and you know it. The white militias and Redeemers were very eager to put down Republican and Fusion Party governments in the south and seize political control for themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Liberty_Place
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I will wait until tomorrow then. But sometimes something that seems “cliche” is a matter of “what happened.” “Capital” as in the people who owned a lot of it and wanted more, payed large sums of money basically inventing think tanks to find and promote a working economic system to their benefit to match a political strategy to allow them this benefit.
They discovered what the top economists on the different “sides” all knew back in the 1940s, the nature of money, something I have tried to share with everyone here. Basically that deficits amounted to new money, bonds or not, and that new money did not necessarily raise interest rates nor inflation.
Liberals, loosely speaking, have ranged from telling the truth on this to suffering personal cognitive dissonance to believing that they need to assuage imagined other stupid people with lies and temperances of the facts to fit popular narratives.
Conservatives who suffered the latter were crushed by those like Milton Friedman who spoke very plainly to those technically advanced enough to listen. He did not worry. “Capital” found these rogue Keynesian “monetarists” and somewhere along the lines in a grand mixture of historical forces, machinations, and coincidences took power and voted themselves free money while boldly lying that the deficits mattered and democrats better fix them. Democrats took a lot of pride in out-Republicaning the Republicans in their deficit reduction but did so on the back of compromised theory. To paraphrase Max Weber, the truth does not automatically lie between extremes in a debate. Too bad liberals didn’t read Weber. Republicans laughed to the bank.
To understand that this is happening and that it’s on purpose and is sustainable by the right wing effectively indefinitely requires and understanding of the economics of money and the macro economy.
In short the Republicans, in their actions are not operating on bad economics but on good, corrupt economics. And until it’s understood how and why, they win that game.
Berzerker
Deity
The weren't free to work it out peacefully
I didn't say they were the core, just that they were among the abolitionists. The KKK should have been dealt with forcibly, they were terrorizing and murdering people.
And they won
Jim Crow was about political power, thats what pointing guns at people is - power. If they couldn't point guns and terrorize people, segregation would die. Most people just aint racist, they wont buy from racists, they wont employ racists. Racism will wither, peacefully.
They weren't... free? Hmm, why does that sound familiar.
So you do think it should have been done at the point of a gun. What's up with the cognitive dissonance?
at the point of a gun
Berzerker
Deity
a century of slavery followed by a century of Jim Crow doesn't leave much room for freedom
Libertarians dont believe the KKK should be allowed to terrorize and murder people. The 'point of a gun' refers to the KKK and segregationist governments forcing people to discriminate under Jim Crow.
The people holding the guns were the KKK and state/local governments enforcing Jim Crow
But we were talking about the civil rights movement winning.
At the point of National Guardsmen's guns.
This may have been a misunderstanding... I interpreted 'They' weren't free to work it out peacefully as being about your fellow libertarians.
r16
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no , he didn't . You wouldn't be able to justify the Rebellion without the ClS remnants justifying the lmperial Fleet which then kept the fire and options boiling . You know , Rebels voicing like the same exact things the Dooku bunch would be saying , the difference being they had a bit more right to say those things , when compared to ClS against the Republic . Have seen quite a few of the Clone Wars cartoons , can't exactly remember any heroic slaver . lmagine what would happen back in the day if some "average" American with a dozen AR-15s at home was to imagine that some Brown people with an AK in some lraqi street could be as manly as like ...
Berzerker
Deity
They refers to people living under the institutions of slavery and Jim Crow. They weren't free to peacefully change society. The Natl Guard escorted black students to school, why? Because people with guns told those students they couldn't go. Well, they had a right to attend, it was a public school. Thats a valid civil right under the Constitution.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
Thanks for the PSA. I am so glad I asked.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
What did i do to deserve this dishonor?
