Do you believe in ghosts?

[lovett]

So when a person says she was raped and their was no proof the police just stop that?

Yes actually, they do. If theres no evidence to support an accussation then it clearly wont result in a conviction. It doesn't necessarily mean shes lying of course.

The scientific process involves observation as well as theory; whichever comes first they are then desperate for the other to verify it.

Pointing out that there exists one without the other is not disproving it; but merely observing that it is not yet proved.

...

But to state this is 'disproved' is bollocks.

I don't think anyone was specifically stating that the existence of ghosts has been unequivically 'disproved' but rather that it is highly unlikely.

Consider obsevation first. Is there any currently accepted scientific theory based on purely anecdotal evidence? Doubtful.
So is there any uncontested evidence supporting ghosts existence that trandscends anecdote? Not as far as I know.

This seems a bit strange really, considering just a few basic facts. First, why isn't the world chock-a-block with ghosts? I can't but a figure on the exact number of human lives, but assuming everyone born dies and becomes a ghost then we're talking tens of billions of ghosts that should be here. So why haven't I seen one?

Il accept that this assumption may be wrong. Perhaps everyone doesn't become a ghost, or not all ghosts are visible or ectcetera ectcetera. Now this assumes that a certain, probably constant percentage of humanity becomes visible active ghosts. If this was the case then surely we'd expect a huge spike in ghost sightings following mass death. Take the first world war- 20 million military casualties followed by 100 million flu deaths. Thats a significant proportion of the global population, surely there'd be an upswing in ghost sightings somewhere along the line?

This same concept can be applied to any events cause mass death. Agricultural reform in China and Russia? Second world war? The Black Death? all events on a global scale killing huge numbers of people-shouldn't we expect a proportional increase in ghosts? Not to mention localised events; Pol Pot killed about a quarter of his country, why wern't ghosts everywhere?

Onto observation, I find it strange that with millions of cameras about, and tens of thousands of people actively searching out ghosts we dont have a single conclusive piece of evidence. Surely it shouldn't be that hard to find paplpable examples of ghosts. Reportedly we can see them, and they can affect an enviroment (e.g turn a room colder). If we can see them, they must either emit or reflect light in some form, visible light no less. This should really make them eminiently detectable-its means they must be made of fairly unextraordinary particles. If we can detect a planet several trillion miles away, or inconceivably small and exotic particles (Charm Quark, Gluon,Tau lepton) why can't we see something that reflects visible light. Hell, it even speaks to you sometimes.

Instead, I think it much more likely that ghosts are merely inventions of our hugely complex and poorly understood brains. We know that all our surposedly solid senses are only loose impressions anyway (your brain makes up most of what your seeing, our retina detects less then 100th of our field of vision, when its doing anything at all.Similiar things happen with hearing.) So its really not hard to explain ghosts as merely inventions. Especially when we take into account the brains propensity to just make up memories- It does this on a quasi-regular basis, often when influenced by other people.

Of course, this doesn't completely disprove ghosts (completely disproving something is more or less impossible) but it leaves so real reason to believe in them. Incidentally, would anyone like to tell me where ghosts get all their energy from? Moving cups is pretty impressive for someone with no muscles...

 

[holy king]

i think you killed the thread ;-)

 

[lovett]

Maybe it'll come back as a ghost.

 

[bathsheba666]

Yes actually, they do. If theres no evidence to support an accussation then it clearly wont result in a conviction. It doesn't necessarily mean shes lying of course.



I don't think anyone was specifically stating that the existence of ghosts has been unequivically 'disproved' but rather that it is highly unlikely.

Consider obsevation first. Is there any currently accepted scientific theory based on purely anecdotal evidence? Doubtful.
So is there any uncontested evidence supporting ghosts existence that trandscends anecdote? Not as far as I know.

This seems a bit strange really, considering just a few basic facts. First, why isn't the world chock-a-block with ghosts? I can't but a figure on the exact number of human lives, but assuming everyone born dies and becomes a ghost then we're talking tens of billions of ghosts that should be here. So why haven't I seen one?

Il accept that this assumption may be wrong. Perhaps everyone doesn't become a ghost, or not all ghosts are visible or ectcetera ectcetera. Now this assumes that a certain, probably constant percentage of humanity becomes visible active ghosts. If this was the case then surely we'd expect a huge spike in ghost sightings following mass death. Take the first world war- 20 million military casualties followed by 100 million flu deaths. Thats a significant proportion of the global population, surely there'd be an upswing in ghost sightings somewhere along the line?

This same concept can be applied to any events cause mass death. Agricultural reform in China and Russia? Second world war? The Black Death? all events on a global scale killing huge numbers of people-shouldn't we expect a proportional increase in ghosts? Not to mention localised events; Pol Pot killed about a quarter of his country, why wern't ghosts everywhere?

Onto observation, I find it strange that with millions of cameras about, and tens of thousands of people actively searching out ghosts we dont have a single conclusive piece of evidence. Surely it shouldn't be that hard to find paplpable examples of ghosts. Reportedly we can see them, and they can affect an enviroment (e.g turn a room colder). If we can see them, they must either emit or reflect light in some form, visible light no less. This should really make them eminiently detectable-its means they must be made of fairly unextraordinary particles. If we can detect a planet several trillion miles away, or inconceivably small and exotic particles (Charm Quark, Gluon,Tau lepton) why can't we see something that reflects visible light. Hell, it even speaks to you sometimes.

Instead, I think it much more likely that ghosts are merely inventions of our hugely complex and poorly understood brains. We know that all our surposedly solid senses are only loose impressions anyway (your brain makes up most of what your seeing, our retina detects less then 100th of our field of vision, when its doing anything at all.Similiar things happen with hearing.) So its really not hard to explain ghosts as merely inventions. Especially when we take into account the brains propensity to just make up memories- It does this on a quasi-regular basis, often when influenced by other people.

Of course, this doesn't completely disprove ghosts (completely disproving something is more or less impossible) but it leaves so real reason to believe in them. Incidentally, would anyone like to tell me where ghosts get all their energy from? Moving cups is pretty impressive for someone with no muscles...

Alternatively, perhaps they're made of dark matter...

That way they'd constitute the majority of the mass of the universe,
and are killing themselves laughing that we still can't see them.

 

[Masquerouge]

Of course, this doesn't completely disprove ghosts (completely disproving something is more or less impossible) but it leaves so real reason to believe in them. Incidentally, would anyone like to tell me where ghosts get all their energy from? Moving cups is pretty impressive for someone with no muscles...

You're perfectly right that we can't completely disprove something, but there is a point where you just have to jump the gun and say:
"there are no ghosts"
"there are no unicors"
"there are no singing carrots"

you know?

 

[El_Machinae]

Well Im reading a book called 1 minute after you die. It says that the demons are always watching over us. They learn to impersonate us, our attidtude, our voices, everything. Then when the person dies, and a Medium tries to speak with them, The demons are talking to them. Not them.

You should read the wiki on Cold Reading, next, for another reason why the mediums can give you details on your loved ones ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

 

[LucyDuke]

Does anyone know of any good ghosts stories, real or not?

Well, my story isn't good, but it's real. However you want to explain it. I was driving home from my friend's house one night. It was foggy, it's always foggy at night in Rehoboth. I wasn't on any drugs, I wasn't sick, and I'd driven this road a million times before, so I don't see a good reason to write it off easily as a hallucination. I saw a man walking in the same direction I was traveling on the right side of the road a little way ahead of me. Red flannel style shirt, unremarkable jeans, and one of those hats like the ones with the little ear flaps on the sides, with some hair sticking out the back. I noticed him because people usually didn't walk along that road. He was just walking, and several seconds after I noticed him, he vanished. Just plain wasn't there any more. There wasn't anywhere he could've ducked into to hide, he was there and then he wasn't. I called the friend whose house I was leaving, and said "I think I just saw a ghost." I described the guy just as I did here, and he yelled for his brother to "get the ghost book". They told me the story, one I have no recollection of ever hearing before. Granted, I didn't stop and talk to him, nothing remarkable happened other than the guy vanishing, but the description matched. I'd love to have this explained, but I can't think of any good explanation. Link to the record is in my last post. It's known as "the red-headed phantom of route 44". (I didn't notice his hair color, either.)

 

[philippe]

Well, my story isn't good, but it's real. However you want to explain it. I was driving home from my friend's house one night. It was foggy, it's always foggy at night in Rehoboth. I wasn't on any drugs, I wasn't sick, and I'd driven this road a million times before, so I don't see a good reason to write it off easily as a hallucination. I saw a man walking in the same direction I was traveling on the right side of the road a little way ahead of me. Red flannel style shirt, unremarkable jeans, and one of those hats like the ones with the little ear flaps on the sides, with some hair sticking out the back. I noticed him because people usually didn't walk along that road. He was just walking, and several seconds after I noticed him, he vanished. Just plain wasn't there any more. There wasn't anywhere he could've ducked into to hide, he was there and then he wasn't. I called the friend whose house I was leaving, and said "I think I just saw a ghost." I described the guy just as I did here, and he yelled for his brother to "get the ghost book". They told me the story, one I have no recollection of ever hearing before. Granted, I didn't stop and talk to him, nothing remarkable happened other than the guy vanishing, but the description matched. I'd love to have this explained, but I can't think of any good explanation. Link to the record is in my last post. It's known as "the red-headed phantom of route 44". (I didn't notice his hair color, either.)

you met Solid snake????

 

[Patricman]

I know a good scary story, ( not necesssarily a ghost one though) Ill post it later.

 

[Murky]

It appears the majority don't believe in ghosts. Most skeptics dismiss any first hand accounts as delusional behavior, hoaxes or hallucinations. I know that our minds can play funny tricks on us so this theory seems like the most likely explanation.

The minority position is that ghosts are real and they've most likely have had some first hand account or what they believed to be real, at least to them.

The third position is that there's not any proof either way. It could be delusion or it could be a real experience. There's not really a way to disprove the existence of ghosts so they're open to the possibility.

I've had what seems like encounters with the paranormal but it could have just been my imagination going wild after viewing a show or reading about ghosts. I am still open the possibility that it could be real so I think that undecided is the most logical position for me to take.

 

[EdCase]

You're perfectly right that we can't completely disprove something, but there is a point where you just have to jump the gun and say:
"there are no ghosts"
"there are no unicors"
"there are no singing carrots"

you know?

But there are singing raisins...I see'd 'em on the TeeVee

 

[Photi]

Not in the strict sense. But I know we can't explain everything as neatly as we'd like to.

I saw this guy. Before I ever read or heard anything about the story. I just saw a guy walking along the road, and then the guy vanished. Like a freakin' ghost story. I called my friend, told him what I saw, and he freaked out and told me about the story.

I don't know how to explain it without sounding hysterical. I don't know if it was a "ghost", I don't know what it was. It was there, though.

i wonder if this is where stephen king got his inspiration in the hitchhiker segment of creepshow. not that he needs any inspiration beyond his imagination, but he is from new england.

 

[Stylesjl]

From my own personal experience I know that the mind can play tricks because it is not a perfect system. Ghosts are not real, otherwise they would have been conclusive evidence brought forth by now. Ghosts also contradict many of the laws of physics we know now (how can a dead person replicate a visual image of themselves at another location?). Even if ghosts were real, there sure is hell is a scientific explanation behind how they work

 

[b etor]

i believe in a lot of the supernatural.

 

[Lotus49]

"I do believe in spooks", but I know that they are more afraid of me, than I am of them. Even though I'm still IN this life, I can still psyche them out (in the spiritual sense), not vice versa.

But, there's a mutual respect.

 

[George2816]

No, I'd want a bit of evidnce, and I dont consider "I cant explain it so it must be a ghost" evidence

WHy do people not want evidence that god exists but want evidence that ghosts exists?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

WHy do people not want evidence that god exists but want evidence that ghosts exists?

What people are you talking about? I have a suspicion that this is a strawman.

 

[silver 2039]

WHy do people not want evidence that god exists but want evidence that ghosts exists?

I want evidence of both, and I don't believe either exist.

 

[Catharsis]

What people are you talking about? I have a suspicion that this is a strawman.

Actually, he might be on to something here - at least, in one case:

Give concrete details or it did not happen.

 

[holy king]

WHy do people not want evidence that god exists but want evidence that ghosts exists?

you could argue that believing in god is a philosophical necessity while believing in ghosts or unicorns isnt...
i for myself dont see it that way...