DoC 1.18 Civilizations

[Gen1_]

Well, Greece indeed has several historicity problems.
The first one is the Mycenian one, 'cause the spawn date is still the same than vanilla RFC.
The second one is the colonisation one, but Greece seems to colonise southern Italy more often with postponed Rome spawn date.
The third one is the Macedonian problem. I won't talk about it, this is too polarising.

 

[banzay13]

AI Aztec should get much bigger started army. Or native city Toluan should flip to them at start. Now Aztec just can't do anything withy natives and stay with one city.

 

[Dracosolon]

Greece shouldn't have survived. I mean, Mycenaean Greece did collapse historically. I genuinely don't understand why we don't have later Greece spawn date.

Probably because it's already pretty short-lived as it is.

 

[Tigranes]

• Import a cumulative of 100 happiness resources by 1300 AD

What does this actually mean for Swahili? Trade, say, for Gold with some civ for 10 turns, cancel and re-trade for the same Gold resource and it will count as 2 cumulative trades?

 

[great.taurus]

• Import a cumulative of 100 happiness resources by 1300 AD

What does this actually mean for Swahili? Trade, say, for Gold with some civ for 10 turns, cancel and re-trade for the same Gold resource and it will count as 2 cumulative trades?

It seems to me that each turn counts every traded good as one more for the total. So at either extreme you could trade a single resource for 100 turns or 100 resources in a single turn (or of course, any combination between these extremes), and either would be acceptable.

 

[Dracosolon]

I played around with revising the French UHV and decided to test its difficulty for myself.

I mostly wanted to come up with a more interesting 19th century, since with the current one you're in control of Europe by 1800 AD and just have to finish the wonders. In particular, I wanted to represent the second French Colonial Empire, arguably more impactful on world history than the first; and to give some incentive for Paris to keep focusing on culture past 1700 AD.

For the deadlines, I went with 1715 AD (death of Louis XIV), 1815 AD (final defeat of Napoleon) and 1915 AD (WWI off by a year - around the time France's colonial empire reached its largest size, and more importantly the end of the Belle Epoque, arguably the peak of France's cultural and colonial relevance).

So:

Ancien Regime - Have Legendary culture in Paris and control twenty-four distinct health and happiness resources by 1715 AD.
This one incentivizes you to expand outside of Europe. You have eight or so resources in France proper, and the path of least resistance is simply to settle in your historical territories in the Americas, in similar fashion to the 1700 AD scenario: Haiti has Amber and eventually Coffee, Guadeloupe Pearl and Cocoa, French Guyana Spice, Canada Fur, Pig and Silver, inland Louisiana Deer and Tobacco, and there are more common resources like Sugar, Whale, etc. You can make things easier for yourself with the Trading Company event which will likely get you cities in India. The one downside is that there's no real incentive to settle near New Orleans, since it shares all of its resources with France (or Guadeloupe's Crab).

The Napoleonic Wars - Adopt an Industrial era civic then vassalize five European civilizations by 1815 AD.
This one has some slight civic focus for the historical flavor, but really it's more about conquering quickly, rather than progressively starting from the Medieval era like I tended to do on the old map. Industrial civics are Democracy or Nationalism for the first tech column, then Stratocracy and Central Planning for the second, etc. - the first three being historically flavorful. I ended up with Italy, the Neitherlands, Prussia and Austria capitulating, and Kievan Rus and eventually Russia as peace vassals. Even without Russia the surface covered in Europe was around 40%.

Belle Epoque - Acquire eight colonies by settling, eight by conquest and eight by other means, and generate XXXX culture per turn in Paris by 1915 AD.
I didn't want to get bogged down into detailing specific areas, so this one is worded a little differently from other colonial empire goals. The "other means" include the peaceful Trading Company event (for me that was two cities in India), congresses (another two in India, and one each in Canada, Madagascar and Jerusalem), culture flips (one in India) and diplomacy. I thought that was a nice nod to the diplomatic focus of the civ's UP.
For Paris I didn't know in advance what number would be realistic. I stopped around 1850 AD, with +8 600 points per turn. Maybe it's possible to reach 10 000 points with enough planning (towns, wonders, cathedrals, Golden Age?), but at that point I was already well in advance in tech and didn't have space for more wonders anyway. Otherwise a "fair" number might depend on the intended tech progression.

I took some screenshots but this post is long enough as it is, so there you go. As a conclusion I can say it felt like the first goal was my favorite, and with a less generous tech rate it could maybe become a real nailbiter. You have to beat your rivals to the the colonies, ferry Settlers, Workers and defense and work around the Natives. Maybe the number could be fiddled with though to account for the Trading Company event.
Ultimately I'm still not sure for the third UHV's Paris goal. It's a nice combination of planning and tech but could maybe be replaced with something that feel more useful. Golden Ages? Settled Great People? Personally I think we have enough of these, but maybe you guys have ideas.

 

[kakajanjan]

can i have link to the latest mod please

 

[rob-art1985]

I think Australia should be added to the game now. With it's independence 1901 it could be an interesting late game country. The southeast didn't get a lot of attention yet
Historical goals could be something like
-Ensure there is no European colony in Austraia and Oceania in XXXX
-Build a Highway connection from East to West Australia till XXXX and have 10 cities with green energy in Australia till YYYY
-build Man in Space until ZZZZ

 

[SultanRedSnake]

I think Australia should be added to the game now. With it's independence 1901 it could be an interesting late game country. The southeast didn't get a lot of attention yet
Historical goals could be something like
-Ensure there is no European colony in Austraia and Oceania in XXXX
-Build a Highway connection from East to West Australia till XXXX and have 10 cities with green energy in Australia till YYYY
-build Man in Space until ZZZZ

-Destroy Choomah Island
-Kill Norton
-Finally Relax

 

[IrishDragon]

Australia starting as a vassal could make it interesting or at least different.
If the player is England (or whoever controls the most of Australia), they could have an option of releasing Australia around 1851 as a vassal with a +1 relations boost but risk war with other civs that settled Australia, or as independent with +2 or +4. Or do nothing and have a low % chance of the Australian civ declaring anyway and ending up in a war with them. Same option in 1901 but higher chance of war. If they're not free by the next 50 year interval at 1951 you get the normal let them go or declare war option.

The dominions of the British Empire didn't get diplomatic independence to set their own foreign policy until after WW1 with the Balfour Declaration of 1926 and Statute of Westminster in 1931, and even then Australia didn't ratify it until during WW2 so automatically followed Britain's declaration of war.

 

[Sovietof17]

I think UHV#2 and UHV#3 for Ethiopia is too hard. I was able to achieve UHV#2 once by founding catholicism, but otherwise it's really tough. UHV#3 is just too hard, there arent enough fast boats or units to kick out europeans, especially when they stack in colonies with 3-4 rifleman

 

[Gen1_]

I somehow understood that the civ that will the most likely end up to be added is Boer.

 

[Leoreth]

The power of nepo babies: can gift great merchants to other civs to cause unrest and switch their civics

 

[Dannimal]

Late game new company - automotive industry. Spreads fascism (Henry Ford up to current day)

 

[Videosyncratic]

The power of nepo babies: can gift great merchants to other civs to cause unrest and switch their civics

Did you say "gift" or "grift"?

(I can't believe I haven't logged into this account for years and this is the first thing I post)

 

[Krieger-FS]

Over the last couple months, I’ve been reviewing the current African civs and potential additions. Regarding the first, most suggestions are minor, based on some readings I did recently. These may be included in the future when there are less important things to do in the mod like balancing civs, techs, and implementing city names.

And while I know that adding civs may happen only far in the future (after the final 1.18 release), I’m including those suggestions here because some of them may impact current civs and can be useful for brainstorming – Leoreth, if you feel this isn’t the right time or place to discuss new civs, I’m happy to edit the post and revisit the topic when it’s more appropriate. These suggestions are based on my own research, including those made long ago in the old thread about African civs, but also drew inspiration in modmods from the community, particularly merijn’s, 1SDANi’s, CrossRFC and Aeons, so credits also goes to them in some things.

Edit: added the civ suggestions to the appropriate thread.

Spoiler Civs Revisions :

NUBIANS

Spawn Location: Napata/Dongola tile (older than Meroë and also the capital of Kush and Makuria)
Leaders: given the long timespan, maybe we can have few more leaders to the civ, suggesting here Amanirenas (Classical Age; Monarchy), and Zakharias or Merkurios (Medieval Age; Clergy or Theocracy; Orthodoxy).

UHV:
The Nubians lack the flavor names for their UHVs. Here are some suggestions, with a revised last UHV to extent the gameplay and make the UP a little more useful:
1) Kingdom of Kush: Have 200 gold and 200 culture and acquire five happiness resources by 900 BC.
2) Meroitic Empire: Have a population of 40 in happy cities by 300 BC.
3) The Christian Kingdoms and the Patriarch: build an Orthodox Cathedral by 600 AD and settle Great Prophet in Alexandria and ensure that all the cities along the Nile are Orthodox in 1100 AD.


MANDE

Leaders: Since the Mande also has a longer timespan, it would be nice to add another leader for it. Two suggestions may be interesting: Dinga (the legendary founder of the Ghana Empire) or Sundiata Keita (the founder of Malian Empire). They can have as preference Hegemony or Caste System and no favorite religion.

UHV:
UHVs names seem switched. Also, if we add Songhai with the University of Sankore UVH (which I argue below), it is better to change the Malian one. As a suggestion, we can a) slightly change the currently UHV3 or b) go to a radically different one (though already discussed by the community):
a) Jannah*: Build the Great Adobe Mosque and settle a Great Prophet in its city in 1350.
b) Abu Bakr’s Dreams: discover the Americas or South America before the Europeans.

Pagan Religion: Bidaism or Siguism instead of Yoruba. Both refer to variations of traditional religions of the Mandé and Soninke (Songhai) peoples. While Siguism is more known and practiced even today, Bidaism seems to be the original religion of Ghana Empire.
URV: Control 4 Gold, 4 Salt and 4 Copper resources or make your capital have Influential culture level.

* Jannah is the Islamic paradise and may be the origin of Djenné’s name.


SWAHILIS

Leaders: while having just one leader for the civ is reasonable, considering gameplay and history of the Swahilis (the timespan is basically the Medieval Age and, historically, the main polities were successively conquered by the Portuguese during the 16th century, then the Omanis in the early 18th, then became independent with a Omani-Swahili dynasty in 19th before Anglo-German colonial conquests), here are two suggestions for more flavor: Yusuf al-Hasan (Renaissance Age, Thalassocracy, Islam) and Tippu Tip (Industrial Age, Slavery, Islam).

UP: while fulfilling its purpose, I think the UP could be improved to represent something more unique and thematic to the Swahilis. So, my suggestion is: The Power of Palm Trees: Can construct coastal improvements without removing Savannas and Forests and Sailing Ships cost -10% hammers.

UHV:
The Swahilis, as all the newest civ additions, lack the flavor names for their UHVs. Here are some suggestions:
1) The Zanj Coast: Import a cumulative of 100 happiness resources by 1300 AD.
2) From Kilwa to Australia: Reveal 35% of the world’s coastlines by 1400 AD.
3) Masters of Indian Ocean Trade: Have 25 trade routes by 1500 AD.

Pagan Religion: currently, they have Yoruba but certainly is not the most appropriate. The problem here is that the Swahili people are the result of a melting pot between Bantu-speaking Africans, Southern Arabs and Iranians (mostly from Shiraz) and were Muslim since the beginning. Thus, we can choose between Musikism (from the nearby Shona, emphasizing their African element and my favorite approach here), Anunnaki (Middle East) or Mazdaism (Persian/Iranian).


CONGOLESE

Leaders: another case of adding another leader for more flavor (and for adding another female leader which we have a good looking asset): Nzinga (Renaissance Age, Syncretism)

Pagan Religion: Bukongo instead of Yoruba.
URV: Control a Pagan city with Developing culture in Africa, North America, Caribbean, and South America or the current Yoruba UHV.

 

[Leoreth]

There also is a thread for new civ suggestions. If I ever want to reference ideas for new civs, I am more likely to check there than here.

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Has somebody done the Kievan Rus UHV on 1.18 (normal/Regent)?

Some feedback from my latest game (normal/Regent/git-version from 8/1/25/ 600 AD start):

UHV 1 (30 orthodox citizens): The first UHV needs focused play but can be reliably done (with 3 or more cities).

UHV 2 (Kill 25 barbs): Could not do it as there are not enough barbs attacking, but maybe doable if you hunt them more actively outside your lands or build more cities (I had founded only 3). I killed 20 at most including conquering barbarian Kazan. 25 maybe too high. How many barbarians and which exactly spawn feels random.

UHV (have 4 fur, 3 salt and 200 gold traded): Did not really try as I couldn't do UHV 2. But looks interesting.

Thanks for the great mod, Leoreth!

 

[AOS9001]

Way back in winter we had a guy proposing Kievan Rus also represent Novgorod (which it kinda does with UHV 3) and have Muscovy's spawn delayed until the mid 15th century. Given how Muscovy's spawn guts Rus (or at least it did a dozen or so Git updates ago) in the mid 13th century making UHV 3 require a military reconquest of Muscovy, I wonder if he was onto something?

 

[Orbii]

Has somebody done the Kievan Rus UHV on 1.18 (normal/Regent)?

Some feedback from my latest game (normal/Regent/git-version from 8/1/25/ 600 AD start):

UHV 1 (30 orthodox citizens): The first UHV needs focused play but can be reliably done (with 3 or more cities).

UHV 2 (Kill 25 barbs): Could not do it as there are not enough barbs attacking, but maybe doable if you hunt them more actively outside your lands or build more cities (I had founded only 3). I killed 20 at most including conquering barbarian Kazan. 25 maybe too high. How many barbarians and which exactly spawn feels random.

UHV (have 4 fur, 3 salt and 200 gold traded): Did not really try as I couldn't do UHV 2. But looks interesting.

Thanks for the great mod, Leoreth!

I literally just did the Rus UHV two nights ago on the latest Git commit on Regent/Normal from the 600 AD start, and literally opened up this thread to post about it and to share my thoughts about the civ. What a coincidence!

In general, I think it's a pretty decent UHV with an implied deadline of ~1220 AD to 1263 AD (Mongol conquerors and Muscovy spawn respectively, as either one just kills the game). I finished my clear one turn before the Muscovy spawn.

Here's my notes on my strategy. Big caveat here --- I never met the Mongols but had a good army of Druzhinas to probably counter them.

Spoiler Rus UHV Strategy :

First, for my notes on the initial start:

1. Turn 1 I revolted civics into Elective / Citizenship / Manoralism / Merchant Trade / Syncretism / Thalassocracy. Elective, Manoralism, and Merchant Trades are each no-brainers; Citizenship is good for rushing out Druzhinas with the excess gold* I accumulated; Syncretism is necessary to provide for fast Orthodoxy spread through prerequisite-less Missionaries, and Thalassocracy discounts UB construction in the burner cities.
2. I settled the following cities with my initial settlers: capital 1E of spawn to get the Iron in the BFC, Minsk on historical tile, and Novgorod 1E and out of core on top* of the fur tile. This provides two Core cities which is plenty. Capital built an Arena and , while the two other cities produced two Settlers each (or maybe three Settlers total; I can't remember) and one Worker, and then switched to building the UB -> Happiness buildings.
3. Starting Druzhinas and one Heavy Spearman each walk SW to meet Byzantium and to poach some roaming barbs.
4. Slider is instantly set to 0% Science. Generally I held it at max Gold with Culture as needed to maintain the capital's happiness, and also spiked the Culture slider when burner cities were settled to secure the resource tiles for UHV 3. Otherwise, setting the slider to maximum Gold is necessary to do UHV 3, in my experience. The excess gold helps with picking up techs and with rushing units out with Citizenship when necessary.
5. All cities were set to prioritize food tiles (even at happiness cost) to help with UHV 1. Initial workers prioritized improving the capital's three resources and then moved north, always prioritizing improving UHV 3 tiles.

For UHV 1, I had to reroll a few times to ensure that Orthodoxy spreads to the capital, as it's the city that I allocated to growth and production in the initial build orders. As soon as Orthodoxy spread and the capital built an Arena, it built Missionaries as needed to spread Orthodoxy. Growing the cities after that is just a matter of simple gameplay.

For UHV 2, as noted, I farmed the initial barb spawns in Byzantium and also the various spawns SE of capital; later, there's Axeman spawns W/NW of Minsk that will int on the city, and barbs that roam NW from Kazan into the burner cities that can be killed (again by Druzhinas). There's some luck here in that I don't think you can afford to lose the starter Druzhinas at all until maybe turn 15ish, at which point new ones can probably be built. Otherwise, it's pretty straightforward since Druzhinas absolutely wreck most things around you. I recall I finished this UHV with quite some time to spare.

For UHV 3, the trade goal was met by the max Gold slider and meeting Byzantium and Poland ASAP to set up trade routes and building the UB to increase trade routes. For the resource goal, the key I realized was to settle as many cities on top of forest Fur tiles as possible (including that out-of-core-1E-Novgorod), as those tiles take a million turns to improve. In the end, I needed to settle three or four extra cities, moving E/NE from Novgorod along the resource route, with the final city just W of the Urals Fur. I hooked up that last city's Fur 1 turn before Muscovy spawned but I was a bit inefficient with my improvement priorities.

So, the game is pretty straightforward once you realize that the Gold slider needs to be increased to convert trade route commerce into Gold. There's also no tech priorities at all and the entire game can be cleared with the initial tech roll, which is always nice since it makes the game difficulty-agnostic. I found it was a pretty classic DOC UHV with variance mainly from UHV 2 combat rolls and the initial Orthodoxy spread (though this always seemed timely as long as contact was maintained with Byzantium --- the variance point was the city Orthodoxy spread to). Druzhinas are also an absolutely cracked UU and those are always a joy to use.

Lastly, I note I only wound up building St. Sophia's Cathedral, even with the new effect, at the very end of the game, because Druzhinas already have Skirmish so the wonder doesn't add much and there's other things to build. Ironically the effect is better for Byzantium and Muscovy since they also fight a lot of Light Cavalry, but unlike the Rus they don't have a UU that gets Skirmish. I am curious what the design philosophy as for these sort of 'national' Great Wonders --- are they meant to help with that civ's UHV and gameplay, or just add a general bonus that might be nice? It generally seems that many wonders do provide a helpful effect to 'their' civ's UHV, but their enabling tech is too late and the construction cost too big an investment to actually assist in the UHV (off memory see e.g. St. Sophia's for Rus, Monolithic Church for Ethiopia, Neuschwanstein Castle for Prussia).