[RD] Donald Trump accuses Barack Obama of illegal wiretap; calls for investigation

[onejayhawk]

What if Trump's not paranoid? What if he's right?

The dialog is running that direction. We know there was surveillance. What if the Obama administration crossed the lines?
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/yes-obama-could-be-prosecuted-if-involved-with-illegal-surveillance/
https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2017/03/05/obamagate-is-a-lot-more-than-a-hashtag/

J

 

[El_Machinae]

I'm curious. Who crossed what line?

J

To publicly declare that the previous president committed a major felony, but without any investigation or ability to then explain himself to the American people. He's not the Prosecutor-in-Chief. A domestic felony has a process. And, once again, he comes off as unhinged, uninformed, and manipulated.

The taxpayers pay a lot of money to have him surrounded by people who can answer his (leading) question. And now he's committed libel. At some point, his flailings need to offend the Right, to show that they have any type of sensibility.

Oh, and DUH. Yes, if Obama committed a major felony, then it's a bad thing. And once again, Trump has access to seekret information that preclude him from behaving in a responsible way. You're doing the classic shifting of the conversation. Your evidence is a Trump tweet. He literally has no credibility when it comes to knowing stuff.

What if OneJayHawk is a Russian plant on CFC to discredit the American military and educational system? Wouldn't that be a scandal? I mean, think about it. It really would be a scandal!

 

[Kyriakos]

Reminds me a bit of

"I, Eric Holder, will investigate these crimes by Eric Holder". At least Sessions recused himself.

Circus continues.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

What if Trump's not paranoid? What if he's right?

The dialog is running that direction. We know there was surveillance. What if the Obama administration crossed the lines?
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/yes-obama-could-be-prosecuted-if-involved-with-illegal-surveillance/
https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2017/03/05/obamagate-is-a-lot-more-than-a-hashtag/

J

Let's get him on the stand so he can perjure himself like his man Sessions. Or as your crowd likes to put it, Lock Him Up!
Although I forget that the standard for justice and fair treatment is vastly different between Democrats and Republicans for you. Hillary Clinton was personally responsible for everything that happened in every US embassy ever, but your guys aren't even responsible for their own words. They can lie under oath but you'd never call for their resignation and investigation for perjury.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Trump is also useful as a hate sink. The Reps can push through their most unpopular policy ideas and the President will get most of the blame.

This is a really good point. Quoted for emphasis.

 

[Sommerswerd]

What if Trump's not paranoid? What if he's right?

The dialog is running that direction. We know there was surveillance. What if the Obama administration crossed the lines?
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/yes-obama-could-be-prosecuted-if-involved-with-illegal-surveillance/
https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2017/03/05/obamagate-is-a-lot-more-than-a-hashtag/

Again, if there was a warrant for a wiretap it means that there was probable cause, which just deepens the implication of the administration in the Russian conspiracy narrative.

 

[Kyriakos]

Again, if there was a warrant for a wiretap it means that there was probable cause, which just deepens the implication of the administration in the Russian conspiracy narrative.

Wouldn't it be needed to investigate if it was actually correctly deemed as "probable cause"? I mean, wiretapping a candidate running for Potus is not a very good move.
I still say we fast-forward to some random-ish fall-guy little cog, as happens always.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Which always seemed like crap to me. I would not be against a law or even an amendment to the Constitution that says a former president who is impeached, removed, and convicted cannot be pardoned.

I don't know to be honest. There's something to be said for the ability of a pardon to help the country put something massively traumatic behind it. Having said that, the public still deserves justice. It's just a tricky line to walk because it can pit two public interests against each other - justice versus a return to normalcy and functional government. Further prosecution of an impeached president could create even more destructive partisan warfare - especially given that one side is willing to resort to illegal and treasonous means to stay in power.

There's no need for logic. It's obviously rediculous. Responding logically treats it like there's an air of legitimacy.

I've reached the point where I'm done being diplomatic, it's time to be mad.

I was quick to defend Trump against partisan bickering right after the election in hopes of getting at least a functional government. I was willing to give him a chance.
He's proven the worst predictions about him to be true and now it's time to fight.

I'm curious. Who crossed what line?

J

*Puts fingers in ears*
Neener neener I can't hear you.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What if OneJayHawk is a Russian plant on CFC to discredit the American military and educational system? Wouldn't that be a scandal? I mean, think about it. It really would be a scandal!

That accusation was 188 characters long. Could you rephrase it using 48 characters less please?

 

[onejayhawk]

Let's get him on the stand so he can perjure himself like his man Sessions. Or as your crowd likes to put it, Lock Him Up!
Although I forget that the standard for justice and fair treatment is vastly different between Democrats and Republicans for you. Hillary Clinton was personally responsible for everything that happened in every US embassy ever, but your guys aren't even responsible for their own words. They can lie under oath but you'd never call for their resignation and investigation for perjury.

You avoid the question. There have been literally hundreds of stories about how the new White House is connected to Russia. Investigations and intelligence reports were cited. It begs the question, why was there an investigation in the first place? Who authorized it? We had a significant issue a few years ago with the IRS targeting Tea Party activists. Trump is merely suggesting a milder form of political hijacking of legal process.

Right wing activist Mark Levin is calling it police state tactics. One should recall that Levin is an attorney of significant stature.

This is a really good point. Quoted for emphasis.

Indeed. Did you notice that the hate is directed at Trump, not coming from him?

J

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Wouldn't it be needed to investigate if it was actually correctly deemed as "probable cause"? I mean, wiretapping a candidate running for Potus is not a very good move.
I still say we fast-forward to some random-ish fall-guy little cog, as happens always.

Trump didn't actually claim he personally was wiretapped. Just that lines in his office were tapped.

He provided no evidence of course, but if we take him at face value then that implies someone in his staff was subject to a FISA warrant for treasonous activity. Otherwise you have to believe that a non-partisan, secret process was hijacked to go after his underlings for political purposes. Now given just what is publicly known about Trump's ties to Russia and multiple lies/perjury offenses committed just to cover that very fact up, what do you find more likely?

An even simpler explanation is that Trump is just making things up out of whole clothe as he usually does.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You avoid the question. There have been literally hundreds of stories about how the new White House is connected to Russia. Investigations and intelligence reports were cited. It begs the question, why was there an investigation in the first place? Who authorized it? We had a significant issue a few years ago with the IRS targeting Tea Party activists. Trump is merely suggesting a milder form of political hijacking of legal process.

Right wing activist Mark Levin is calling it police state tactics. One should recall that Levin is an attorney of significant stature.

J

I'm not avoiding the question. I just don't find it productive to play this stupid game with you.

You don't debate in good faith and I'm done trying with you.

 

[onejayhawk]

An even simpler explanation is that Trump is just making things up out of whole clothe as he usually does.

The simplest explanation is that it's true.

J

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Indeed. Did you notice that the hate is directed at Trump, not coming from him?

J

I don't think you actually understand what was said there.

The simplest explanation is that it's true.

J

No it's not. Stop being obtuse. The simplest explanation is that once again Trump is making things up. Millions of people were at his inauguration, after all.

 

[onejayhawk]

I don't think you actually understand what was said there.

No. I got it exactly. You acknowledged that you hate Trump.

The quote was, "Trump is also useful as a hate sink. The Reps can push through their most unpopular policy ideas and the President will get most of the blame." In that all the hatred is directed toward Republicans, but it gravitates toward Trump. You endorsed the whole statement, including the hatred coming from the not-Republican universe.

J

 

[Cutlass]

The simplest explanation is that it's true.

J

The simplest explanation is that Brietbart lies for a poltical agenda, and Trump lies because he's a liar.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

No. I got it exactly. You acknowledged that you hate Trump.

The quote was, "Trump is also useful as a hate sink. The Reps can push through their most unpopular policy ideas and the President will get most of the blame." In that all the hatred is directed toward Republicans, but it gravitates toward Trump. You endorsed the whole statement, including the hatred coming from the not-Republican universe.

J

Yeah you're just proving you don't understand the quote.

That wasn't about my personal hate of Trump. It's about his usefulness as a foil to take the blame for whatever far-right power grab and unpopular laws the Republicans pass. You're being delightfully obtuse and it makes you look foolish.

 

[metalhead]

Don't bother. J apparently doesn't understand why the president shouldn't be offering legal conclusions about his predecessor having committed a crime before any investigation into the matter has been conducted. Apparently before any evidence has been collected at all.

You'd have to be extraordinarily dense not to see the problem with this, but some people will always deliver at that level.

 

[El_Machinae]

The simplest explanation is that it's true.

This doesn't make sense. This is a man who 'remembered' thousands of NJ muslims celebrating 9/11. This is a man who thought Romney won the popular vote. This is a man who hired private investigators and then was a birther for years. This is a man who tweeted a racist infographic.

He has very little credibility. You also have no mechanism by which he got information that is befuddling everyone else. It's not the simpler answer.

Manafort being a Russian operative at the time of the investigation means that there are now public reports on the investigation. Trump spinning paranoia out of wholecloth is by far and away the most probable explanation of nearly anything he says off-script.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

This doesn't make sense. This is a man who 'remembered' thousands of NJ muslims celebrating 9/11. This is a man who thought Romney won the popular vote. This is a man who hired private investigators and then was a birther for years. This is a man who tweeted a racist infographic.

He has very little credibility. You also have no mechanism by which he got information that is befuddling everyone else. It's not the simpler answer.

Manafort being a Russian operative at the time of the investigation means that there are now public reports on the investigation. Trump spinning paranoia out of wholecloth is by far and away the most probable explanation of nearly anything he says off-script.

No it's not because Hillary and the Demoncrats and Benghazi!
Also gay marriage, abortion and cross dressers in your daughters bathroom!
Illegal immigrants too!