Doviello+

[Medicine_Man_55]

I don't know if there is any interest in adding to the Doviello civilization (or if it is needed at all) but I recently had an idea for a Doviello UU that I figured I may as well share.

Instead of a Beastmaster the Doviello could get a Packmaster. The Packmaster would be identical to a BM for stats but would have 2 special abilities. The first is the ability to summon a permanent summon, a wolf, the second is the ability to cast a version of the Might spell (+40% combat strength -- called Feral Might perhaps) that only effects beasts.

The idea is that this special unit would give the Doviello the ability to call up more wolves from the wilderness in the late game; long after they've used their worldspell. By the time the Doviello have Animal Mastery, a steady trickle of un-upgraded wolf packs (undoubtedly 2x packmasters would stack up and summon/create these as needed) would hardly be overpowered.

The graphic for such a unit could be one human figure (the Doviello battlemaster) accompanied by 3 wolves.

It seems like an obvious idea in hindsight but I figured I should throw it out there anyhow.

 

[Imuratep]

As with every modmod the first thing I doing is playing the Doviello to see how fast I can win a Standard Size Standard Speed Pangea Immortal game with Charadon Lucian rush. I like a lot what you have done. As the AI now levels their units correctly killing your first civ isn't anymore a walk in the park like it was when I tried it in base FFH some time ago and in most other modmods. Instead of 3-4 civs being killed till turn 100 I only managed to kill two until then and I had to consider every step that I did with my army very well as the AI sees weaknesses it didn't see before. Also the upgrade idea for Lucian is quite cool though for me it is very situational. I would never have upgraded him if Pool of Tears had not been near one of the cities I razed. Though finding pool of tears made the game a lot of easier from then on and I won after turn 180 by Conquest victory.
What I love is your change for wolf packs spawning a wolf after every combat won and to increase the strength of wolf packs by 1. This way Doviello world spell finally is very useful beyond having some suicide units that soften up the defenses of the first city you attack.
The animal promotions are also cool though I have only explored them marginally as I was too busy razing the cities of my enemies... But if I hadn't played an early Charadon Lucian rush I could imagine that those can be used as a key conquest mechanic too.

 

[Medicine_Man_55]

Emma Vargamor: Why does Emma Vargamor have Agnostic as a trait? Is it to offset Opportunistic? Is Oppor powerful enough to warrant this?

 

[Imuratep]

Opportunistic could be +x diplo bonus with the three highest ranked civs. Another possibility is to let him switch his alignment every 100 turns to accomodate at the powers that currently sit on top. Should be quite useful as the boni/mali for alignment are more extreme than in base FFH.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

how do you guys get good use out of the dueling ability? it seems to me almost always I'd rather keep both my high level units instead of sacrificing one to get some more XP on the other. am I missing something here?

 

[tesb]

no this ability is a bit wonky, how does it work with immortal units though? if they survive this would make immortals a bit powerful.

 

[Lemminkäinen]

I would prefer the loser not dying but rather getting a negative promotion ("Defeated" or something) that gives -20% (or even more) strength.

 

[Valkrionn]

how do you guys get good use out of the dueling ability? it seems to me almost always I'd rather keep both my high level units instead of sacrificing one to get some more XP on the other. am I missing something here?

Seeing as that ability was coded by myself, I'll give some input.

Typically, I duel my weak units against the strong ones, make them stronger. Seeing as it is based off of actual combat odds, it is fairly safe.

However, you are unable to do that in Wild Mana. While the guts of the code are exactly as I wrote it, Sephi trimmed it to one spell... Making one of the two units in the system completely random. In RifE, there are two spells: Issue Challenge and Accept Challenge. You are able to choose exactly what units duel.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

well that's not really an issue since I can just have 2 units in the tile when I want to cast the spell. the issue seems to be that BOTH units have to be lvl4, and I'd rather keep both my level 4 units alive instead of sacrificing one to get some xp on the other.

 

[Valkrionn]

well that's not really an issue since I can just have 2 units in the tile when I want to cast the spell. the issue seems to be that BOTH units have to be lvl4, and I'd rather keep both my level 4 units alive instead of sacrificing one to get some xp on the other.

Like I said, that is pretty much the only way Sephi changed it. Seems to have removed much of it's use as a result, honestly.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

you mean only issue challenge is supposed to have a lvl4 requirement? that would make a lot more sense indeed

 

[tesb]

well if there would be no requirement to accept challenge this would only be a microintensive xp-feeding mechanic
build unit accept challenge rinse and repeat until you an army even the calabim would be proud of.

i would change system whereas the looser would still live (although heavily damaged) and instead of expierence it would give the city a culture and trade boost (since the doviello are all about small but numerous cities, also this would be quite handy with city states civic).

honestly i don't know though the current system is not rewarding enough and making into a system like described above it would be too strong and micro intensive.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

indeed that seems like a pita. maybe we could instead have an ability similar to the Malakim Ascetism, with units being busy for X turns and when it ends they both have more XP but get damaged. useful, not much microintensive and no units dying. also give it a min level prereq so you don't have to do it with all units, just the experienced ones. another prereq qould be that both units gotta be full health. turn time should be low so that it doesn't take away too much time from actual warfare which the Doviello are intended for, 2 turns at normal speed should be fine imho, 1 at quick and 3 and 4 at epic/marathon respectively. the upcoming cut in number of units in the endgame should also prevent having to use it too many times.

 

[Valkrionn]

Honestly, in RifE it just plays into the other mechanics. I've never felt a need to feed unit after unit into my good ones, just one or two; The big thing is to keep high-xp units, as new units gain xp based on the average xp of your other units.

So really, it was designed as a minor mechanic; It just has more use in RifE. And no, neither unit needs to be level 4; You can duel with your starting units if you want.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

problem there is that WM Doviello are very different so we gotta come up with something different to fit in

 

[Valkrionn]

Yep. That's why my last post pointed out that it depends on their other mechanics in RifE. Taken on it's own, it will not be much of a mechanic.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

thought I'd mention this where it belongs: Doviello camps were nice when camps were at Hunting, but now with Exploration as a prereq for camps they are nothing special anymore. I propose to have doviello camps give +1 food compared to normal camps.

 

[Tarquelne]

I propose to have doviello camps give +1 food compared to normal camps.

No. Dov. camps should give Dov. units x2 xps if the Dov. unit visits 9 different camps.

This mindless micromanagement will drive the player into a killing frenzy, which fits the civ.

 

[ExMachina]

Tundra in RifE and (I believe) FF got a hammer for everyone. Not sure when or why anymore.

Tundra never got 1 in FF, and I don't recall it ever having it in RifE (it currently does not). Illians in RifE get +1 on Tundra, but the Doviello do not.

I tested out the Doviello getting +1 on Tundra awhile back, and I think it's the right direction. They would have plenty of production for units, but they would seek out food resources to grow their cities - which I think is fitting (and I wouldn't mind them getting a + bonus on camps).

I think duels should have a chance to kill the loser, even if a watered-down mechanic is ultimately chosen.