This is apparently not a discussion thread, but am I right to think this means that inequality of wealth preserves political freedom according to this Friedman person?
Dumb and Stupid Quotes Thread: Idiotic Source and Context are Key.
- Thread starter Cutlass
- Start date
That is what Friedman is saying, yes.
He is saying, in the context of the Cold War, that "capitalist" societies (presumably "the West") offer freedom to propagandize in favor of socialist ideas, but socialist ones (presumably "the USSR, China, and associated powers") by necessity do not offer the freedom to propagandize in favor of capitalist ideas. The reason for this, Friedman argues, is because "socialist" societies employ every single person in the service of the state, so naturally they share in all of its propaganda and have no real interest in financing contrary propaganda - whereas "capitalist" societies do not, and thus wealthy individuals in a capitalist society can finance whatever propaganda they like, so long as it's profitable. But they need to rely on wealthy individuals to serve as patrons rather than financing themselves through a large number of small contributions, because it doesn't cost very much to persuade one person (the wealthy individual) whereas it would already cost a lot to persuade a larger number of small-scale donors.
So, says Friedman, the existence of economic inequality causes the existence of political equality: without wealthy patrons, nobody would know about liberal political ideas.
This is obviously absurd. He ignores free-speech laws and the power of the state in ensuring a) that they exist and are enforced and b) that they are regarded as Good Things through education. He doesn't really understand how propaganda works. He doesn't examine the assumption that wealthy individuals in a capitalist society will finance everything without regard to their own political biases. He doesn't seem to care that patrons usually expect control, not just profits, which necessarily impinges on the diversity of political views expressed. He confuses markets for patrons. It's just a humongous hot mess.
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Oh, OK, so I completely understood it the first time but my mind was rejecting it in the face of its obvious contradictions and disingenuousness.
Edit: the expression I was looking for is ‘trickle-down freedomnomics’.
Edit: the expression I was looking for is ‘trickle-down freedomnomics’.
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"For the study of Israel, of Gaza, of Palestine,
Of the bombed out cities of the Middle East,
Of the creeping Palestination
Of our police, streets, and prisons
In America,
Of war in general,
It is our duty, I believe, to study The Talmud.
It is within this book that,
I believe, we will find answers
To some of the questions
That most perplex us.
......
Is Jesus boiling eternally in hot excrement,
For his “crime” of throwing the bankers
Out of the Temple? For loving, standing with,
And defending
The poor? Was his mother, Mary,
A whore?
Of the bombed out cities of the Middle East,
Of the creeping Palestination
Of our police, streets, and prisons
In America,
Of war in general,
It is our duty, I believe, to study The Talmud.
It is within this book that,
I believe, we will find answers
To some of the questions
That most perplex us.
......
Is Jesus boiling eternally in hot excrement,
For his “crime” of throwing the bankers
Out of the Temple? For loving, standing with,
And defending
The poor? Was his mother, Mary,
A whore?
Are Goyim (us) meant to be slaves of Jews, and not only
That, but to enjoy it?
Are three year old (and a day) girls eligible for marriage and intercourse?
Are young boys fair game for rape?
Must even the best of the Goyim (us, again) be killed?
Pause a moment and think what this could mean
Or already has meant
In our own lifetime.
That, but to enjoy it?
Are three year old (and a day) girls eligible for marriage and intercourse?
Are young boys fair game for rape?
Must even the best of the Goyim (us, again) be killed?
Pause a moment and think what this could mean
Or already has meant
In our own lifetime.
You may find that as the cattle
We have begun to feel we are
We have an ancient history of oppression
Of which most of us have not been even vaguely
Aware. You will find that we, Goyim, sub-humans, animals
-The Palestinians of Gaza
The most obvious representatives of us
At the present time – are a cruel example of what may be done
With impunity, and without conscience,
By a Chosen people"
- Alice Walker, novelist and intersectional feminist.
We have begun to feel we are
We have an ancient history of oppression
Of which most of us have not been even vaguely
Aware. You will find that we, Goyim, sub-humans, animals
-The Palestinians of Gaza
The most obvious representatives of us
At the present time – are a cruel example of what may be done
With impunity, and without conscience,
By a Chosen people"
- Alice Walker, novelist and intersectional feminist.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Oof. Was she planning a fifth verse about baking Christian blood into bread and just couldn't work it in?
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
I don't think this guy even understands the point of a corporation: that you surrender some control of your investment in exchange for non-liability and expert management. Shareholders do not vote on every little thing done with a corporation's revenue. I also can't believe a distinguished economist would forget basic grammatical propriety and just forget to put commas where needed.
"But as long as there is a corporate tax, there is no justification for permitting deductions for contributions to charitable and educational institutions. Such contributions should be made by the individuals who are the ultimate owners of property in our society.
[Permitting tax deductions for corporate charity] is a step in the direction of creating a true divorce between ownership and control[,] and of undermining the basic nature and character of our society."
-Milton Friedman, "Monopoly and Social Responsibility", Capitalism and Freedom (40th anniversary edition)
"But as long as there is a corporate tax, there is no justification for permitting deductions for contributions to charitable and educational institutions. Such contributions should be made by the individuals who are the ultimate owners of property in our society.
[Permitting tax deductions for corporate charity] is a step in the direction of creating a true divorce between ownership and control[,] and of undermining the basic nature and character of our society."
-Milton Friedman, "Monopoly and Social Responsibility", Capitalism and Freedom (40th anniversary edition)
Then again the ridiculous idea of the "chosen people" is jewish in the first place. And unlike with cultures which relied heavily on positive traits (eg culture for greeks and war skill for skandinavians), the ancient jewish one had the myth of being slaves who were saved by a genocidal god. A bit like a fantasy of the weak bullied kid, only taken as a foundation for an entire people. Imo it is false to not take ths into account, given it clearly plays a role in what is going on.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
The Jews can't be held responsible for the Gentiles misinterpreting and over-simplifying Jewish theology.
You don't think that the Torah has anything to say about virtue?
Depends, do you mean virtues like marrying preteens and trying to kill your son due to hearing voices?
Besides, if the argument is that god asks you to do x or you will get ruined, it isnt obvioysly virtuous of you to do anything. Virtue is when you dont have to be or do positive, but still are/do it.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
I was thinking more along the lines of piety, wisdom and compassion. The Torah and the Talmud spend a lot of time belabouring the importance of those virtues; child-marriage and witch-hunts don't appear in the canon any more frequently than they do among Christians or pagans.
And now he comes to the defense of an antisemitic poem by trotting out the actual Nazi critique of the Jewish religion - on the plus side, I'm now exempt from responding to his future critiques of "Zionism" in any way other than linking here.
Not to mention its barbaric ban on pederasty, which we know to be a true signifier of a virtuous society.
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As noted in my reply, though, it is compliance to a deity, and an "or else" situation. Not arguing for virtue. The latter is there in much ethical philosophy.
And if you write a post which is nothing but quotes and links, that'll still be in danger of counting as spam.
In this case, regardless
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
That's deeply untrue, and this proposition- that Jews are unfamiliar with ethical life, that they are incapable of ethical life to the extent that they are Jews- is itself an anti-Semitic canard. As Mouthwash correctly identifies, this alleged opposition between active, vigorous European ethics and passive, bigoted Jewish legalism is straight out of the völkisch play-book.
Hm, any backing for claiming that not all ethics is religious in judaism? Cause you sort of didnt present any. It is analogous in christianity, due to common root.
Remember, not all jews are religious.
Re your edit: waiting for your answer to the question: in what way is ethics in judaism logical instead of religious? Examples of logical ethical systems are many, eg from the stoics , aristotle etc
re mouthwash, i can't take him seriously since he is pro apartheid and death-camp israel state.
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Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
The primary sources of Jewish ethics are found in the Torah, the holy scripture of Judaism, and the Talmud, a compendium of Jewish law and rabbinical commentary upon that law. Both texts deal heavily with questions of justice, honesty, piety, cleanliness and charity. That these are "religious" rather than "logical" texts, a dubious distinction, has no bearing whatsoever upon the substantiveness or sincerity of their ethical teachings, any more than Christian reliance upon the Gospels, Acts and Epistles for ethical guidance.
