Earth on the verge of Mass Extinctions

[Abaddon]

My original comment was to do with the fact that we are on the "verge" of an ice age, the "verge" of another Mass Extinction.

MEx happened in the past to massive, rapid changes.

What humans are doing is not that.

We are screwing things up, unbalancing the game and species are losing out.


On a human timescale this seems to hurt. Oh, no, a certain type of tree frog no longer exists! etc etc

But on a global scale.. heck, millions of species have gone extinct in the past, and new ones evolved again.

While we may cause a mass extinction, we won't extinguish life, and it will evolve and diversify once more.



That being said, within our life time, I do not think we will experience this massive change. BUT perhaps in 500, or 1000 years? Our population level is not "critical" yet. Thats when we will really screw things up.

 

[MjM]

Why is this a "crisis" as the OP states? If it happens, it happens.

Because, in a couple hundred years we could have an un-inhabitable ( )planet instead of this lovely blue one!

 

[Archbob]

As a caveat though, the loss of keystone species could really screw with us.

We have plenty of Chickens, cows, and pigs.

The loss of the tiger would be tragic, I agree, but how much would it effect your everyday life?

 

[choxorn]

Because, in a couple hundred years we could have an inhabitable planet instead of this lovely blue one!

I'm fairly certain it's currently inhabitable, as we are currently inhabiting it.

 

[MjM]

I'm fairly certain it's currently inhabitable, as we are currently inhabiting it.

I guess I shouldn't post so late at night.....
You know what I mean . Our oceans are much more delicate and important than you think and letting an area larger than Texas become a swath of decaying plastics and trash, then we really aren't trying too hard to keep this planet free of damage. And eventually all of this climate alteration may mess with the cold ocean currents that keep our planet in it's current climate and allow sea life to live and our oceans to have life below the depths.

 

[bernie14]

wait just a second....IIRC, in the past, as carbon mass increased and the planet got warmer, there was a diversification of species and increase in plant and animal life...so lets HURRY UP THIS GLOBAL WARMING....

 

[Patroklos]

The current "mass extinction event" is of note for one reason and one reason only: We are here to see it. Its the same reason people try to pretend Iraq/Afghanistan is some epic conflict, or the current recession is the worst EVAR! People want to believe they are significant, and that the events they are involved in matter. I hate to tell you this guys, but we are not that big a deal in many regards.

Other mass extinction events were on the order of 50% of species within a flash. Maybe a few centuries if you want to be generous. The current numbers don't even register.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_extinction

 

[Abaddon]

We have plenty of Chickens, cows, and pigs.

The loss of the tiger would be tragic, I agree, but how much would it effect your everyday life?

Zoos would suck

 

[Patroklos]

We have 3D movies now, zoos are obsolete

 

[Narz]

Humans can survive a pretty basic diet. Unless the sun goes out, or we run out of fuel, we will always be able to feed ourselves.

Who's "we"? More people are going hungry than ever before in history, looks like "we" are not doing such a good job.

 

[Narz]

That being said, within our life time, I do not think we will experience this massive change. BUT perhaps in 500, or 1000 years?

We are already experiencing this massive change.

Our population level is not "critical" yet. Thats when we will really screw things up.

It's been critical. IIRC, even during the Civil War era we were already overpopulated (using resources at an unsustainable level), remaining at that level of course it would've taken hundreds, perhaps a thousand years to truly screw things up, we're able to do so at a much faster rate now.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

The current "mass extinction event" is of note for one reason and one reason only: We are here to see it. Its the same reason people try to pretend Iraq/Afghanistan is some epic conflict, or the current recession is the worst EVAR! People want to believe they are significant, and that the events they are involved in matter. I hate to tell you this guys, but we are not that big a deal in many regards.

Other mass extinction events were on the order of 50% of species within a flash. Maybe a few centuries if you want to be generous. The current numbers don't even register.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_extinction

Yeah, but the fact that we weren't around for the other Mass Extinctions means they didn't matter to us - this one will. In the grand scheme of things, it may not effect biodiversity in the long run (life recovered in the Triassic, and the Paleogene, etc.) - but it will harm us. That's why we should care, in my opinion. Life goes on. But people may not.

 

[Abaddon]

Who's "we"? More people are going hungry than ever before in history, looks like "we" are not doing such a good job.

It is not natural for all of a population to succeed. I do not worry about those who do not.

We are already experiencing this massive change.

Like what?

It's been critical. IIRC, even during the Civil War era we were already overpopulated (using resources at an unsustainable level), remaining at that level of course it would've taken hundreds, perhaps a thousand years to truly screw things up, we're able to do so at a much faster rate now.

But we havn't. We have not reached the point where the seas are a toxic swamp, or that all birds have died out. Yes things are going extinct faster than the previous thousands of years, but thats cos were so damn successful. Sure it would be nice to preserve everything, but it just isn't possible unless we just stop human development, which is of course, impossible.

 

[choxorn]

The current "mass extinction event" is of note for one reason and one reason only: We are here to see it. Its the same reason people try to pretend Iraq/Afghanistan is some epic conflict, or the current recession is the worst EVAR! People want to believe they are significant, and that the events they are involved in matter. I hate to tell you this guys, but we are not that big a deal in many regards.

So, because something isn't "as big of a deal" as some worse things in the past, that means it doesn't matter at all?

 

[Abaddon]

So, because something isn't "as big of a deal" as some worse things in the past, that means it doesn't matter at all?

Its called perspective.

 

[Narz]

It is not natural for all of a population to succeed. I do not worry about those who do not.

It's funny you smugly assume you're going to be one who succeeds. England is one of the most overpopulated & least sustainable parts of the world.

Like what?

Huge glacial melts for one, fishery catches down, I forgot the percentage, over 50, IIRC, species dying off, islands being swallowed up, global warming, not to mention the huge amount of toxicity building up in ecosystems (and our bodies, in Japan IIRC, only 2% of the population has healthy/acceptable sperm counts according to the WHO). Maybe the average guy at the discotec can't really profoundly feel what's going on but things are happening.

But we havn't. We have not reached the point where the seas are a toxic swamp, or that all birds have died out.

So we should wait until all life on Earth is extinguished before we do something? Might be a bit late, don't you think?

Yes things are going extinct faster than the previous thousands of years, but thats cos were so damn successful. Sure it would be nice to preserve everything, but it just isn't possible unless we just stop human development, which is of course, impossible.

Successful like an algae bloom or mold on a loaf of bread. I'm more interested in long term, sustainable success.

 

[Narz]

Its called perspective.

Yeah, date rape isn't as bad as forced sexual slavery from age 7 to age 17 but it's still not good & we should do something about it. Likewise the Earth's ecosystem could be much worse (and is heading in that direction) and it's not going to get better by comparing it to the early days of molten lava & saying "lol, it's not so bad!".

 

[Abaddon]

It's funny you smugly assume you're going to be one who succeeds. England is one of the most overpopulated & least sustainable parts of the world.

I am already successful. I am not a starving child in Africa. Anyone born into the developed world is within the bracket of "successful" when you look at the entire human population. Its not going to run out of sustainability within my life time. An considering my family owns a farm, i'm even safer in that regard.

Huge glacial melts for one, fishery catches down, I forgot the percentage, over 50, IIRC, species dying off, islands being swallowed up, global warming, not to mention the huge amount of toxicity building up in ecosystems (and our bodies, in Japan IIRC, only 2% of the population has healthy/acceptable sperm counts according to the WHO). Maybe the average guy at the discotec can't really profoundly feel what's going on but things are happening.

So we should wait until all life on Earth is extinguished before we do something? Might be a bit late, don't you think?

I didn't indicate anywhere that we should wait to act. My point is we are not at the "verge" of mass extinction yet.

Successful like an algae bloom or mold on a loaf of bread. I'm more interested in long term, sustainable success.

You won't live long enough to know either way, so why worry? An you can't stop the other 6 billions ruining it.

 

[Luckymoose]

Who's "we"? More people are going hungry than ever before in history, looks like "we" are not doing such a good job.

That's mostly due to the proliferation of corn and soybeans from the USA at cheap prices out-competing the third world farmers. In combination with the laws passed that allow plants to be patented which adds a whole new layer of sexy capitalism to it.

 

[Narz]

Its not going to run out of sustainability within my life time.

I guess that's our main point of difference. I believe we've got maybe 10-25 years max of "business as usual", probably less.

I didn't indicate anywhere that we should wait to act. My point is we are not at the "verge" of mass extinction yet.

No, we're not at the verge, the mass extinction is already well underway.

You won't live long enough to know either way

I believe I will and even if I die tragically young my daughter will. She's only two. The world will be vastly, vastly different by 2080 (assuming she reaches 82).

so why worry? An you can't stop the other 6 billions ruining it.

I know. I try not to worry, I live for today & plan for tomorrow. What else can I do?