Election from hell

[Bootstoots]

Maybe a lot of people who were planning to vote for Hitler changed their minds and voted for Nader instead.

 

[danjuno]

Why though?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Liberal Americans don't understand us. They think, we do the things we do for reasons of shame. We don't.
We do them as a matter of pride. It's not that hard to understand.
...
We know who we are. We know what we did. And the more i get to know them i recognise that, for all their bluster, (liberal) Americans really don't.

I have to admit that this is a perspective I haven't considered before. Thanks for that. I will have to take some time to digest.

You get to not go to the "Woodrow Wilson school of such and such".

An interesting aside... black students staged a sit-in on campus fairly recently to get this name changed and for the University to scrub Wilson's name from campus... it failed. Generally the way the University treats these things is they wait it out, then give the protesters immunity from expulsion is exchange for agreeing to STFU and go back to class until they graduate... and with all the rabblerousers kowtowed, they get at least a few years of peace and quiet.

Maybe... maybe, with Mussolini you get less death, suffering and ugliness. Maybe not. TF is correct, you don't actually know what you get in those terms. ("But do they really live longer, or will it merely seem longer?") But you don't get any of the above. You get to weasel out. You don't get to have a country and a nation with a new-car-smell.

On a very simplistic level, I think I get your first point... I mean if there was no slavery, I would have never been born... If I had never gone to jail I wouldn't have gotten together with my wife... and so on.

However... I have to say that the guys that died storming the beaches at Normandy, and the folks who got their limbs blown off at Gettysburg would probably beg to differ with you about the "weaseling out" part.

Some kids learn the stove is hot by listening to someone tell them so... Some kids learn by touching the burner and singeing their finger... Some kids learn by pulling the boiling pot off the stove and melting half their face off with a deluge of boiling hot water.

I learned that deep-frying a thanksgiving turkey is a great way to accidentally burn your house down, by seeing others make the unfortunate mistake of doing so. As a result, I wont be deep frying any turkeys on my property, however...

Expecting me to admire the folks who burned their house down and want to emulate them, just because they "learned the hard way and built a nicer house in its place" is a tough sell. You made a good case though... like I said I will have to think some more about it.

EDIT: I'll add a note about the irony in the grand-scheme-of-things whereby America has twice been the fire department to Germany's deep-fried-turkey fires... and Woodrow Wilson was once the Fire Chief... damn his racist eyes.

 

[Mouthwash]

I'd probably vote for Mussolini if it were 45-45 between him and Nader.

 

[Lexicus]

EDIT: I'll add a note about the irony in the grand-scheme-of-things whereby America has twice been the fire department to Germany's deep-fried-turkey fires... and Woodrow Wilson was once the Fire Chief... damn his racist eyes.

Well, sort of...there were some other countries involved, too, I'm pretty sure something called the "Red Army" played a fairly important role the second time around...

I'd probably vote for Mussolini if it were 45-45 between him and Nader.

What this tells me is that your hatred of liberals is actually stronger than your hatred of people who helped carry out the Holocaust, which is fairly amusing.

 

[Mouthwash]

What this tells me is that your hatred of liberals is actually stronger than your hatred of people who helped carry out the Holocaust, which is fairly amusing.

"In Italy under Mussolini, which is the prototype of fascism, probably no more than a few dozen people were murdered by the regime. There were no concentration camps. Art and culture flourished. Before the war, life was highly tolerable, including the life of the Jews, until the promulgation of the race laws in 1938. The percentage of Jews in the Fascist Party was higher than their percentage in the population. And the Italians were not actually responsible for the downturn that occurred afterward in the life of the Jews – not like in France, where the fate of the Jews is totally the historic responsibility of the French, even if they decline to acknowledge it."

-Zeev Sternhell, a left-wing Israeli historian who specializes in fascism

 

[Lexicus]

"In Italy under Mussolini, which is the prototype of fascism, probably no more than a few dozen people were murdered by the regime. There were no concentration camps. Art and culture flourished. Before the war, life was highly tolerable, including the life of the Jews, until the promulgation of the race laws in 1938. The percentage of Jews in the Fascist Party was higher than their percentage in the population. And the Italians were not actually responsible for the downturn that occurred afterward in the life of the Jews – not like in France, where the fate of the Jews is totally the historic responsibility of the French, even if they decline to acknowledge it."

-Zeev Sternhell, a left-wing Israeli historian who specializes in fascism

This isn't true- there were concentration camps in Italy, and in any case after 1943 when the Germans invaded the place they carted off thousands of Jews to be murdered and Mussolini was their puppet while they were doing that. Yet you'd vote for him over Nader, because as we all know Nader was complicit in the murder of...car company profits, or something. I dunno. It makes absolutely zero sense to me.

 

[Mouthwash]

This isn't true- there were concentration camps in Italy, and in any case after 1943 when the Germans invaded the place they carted off thousands of Jews to be murdered and Mussolini was their puppet while they were doing that.

Would he have done that if not for his total dependence on the Nazis? I'm not saying he wasn't responsible, but would he have used valuable resources and manpower to kill Jews of his own volition?

Yet you'd vote for him over Nader, because as we all know Nader was complicit in the murder of...car company profits, or something. I dunno. It makes absolutely zero sense to me.

I'm being a bit hyperbolic here. I really despise Nader as an individual.

 

[Lexicus]

Would he have done that if not for his total dependence on the Nazis? I'm not saying he wasn't responsible, but would he have used valuable resources and manpower to kill Jews of his own volition?

No idea.

You should check this out though:
http://www.acjna.org/acjna/articles_detail.aspx?id=300

Some historians have tried to absolve Italians from their role in the holocaust, explaining that while Italy did institute racial laws, the extermination campaign was strictly a German invention. Those historians fail to take account of the impact of Italy’s 1938 racial laws, which instituted harsher restrictions than Germany’s first anti-Semitic legislation. They ignore the impact of the Italian anti-Semitic campaign, which worked to isolate Jews from Italian society and remove their wealth, measures that served to prepare for the much harsher German campaign. However, when considering Italy’s relationship with its Jews during World War II, it would be a mistake to look only at the official attitudes and ignore the behavior of the Italian people.,



The Italian Jews, representing just 0.1 percent of the Italian population, were the most assimilated Jews in Europe. Although Italy is a nation with a strong Catholic tradition, Jews were accepted as important members of society and were successful in the military, politics, and in every skilled profession. When Benito Mussolini’s government asked the Italian people to turn on their neighbors, an astoundingly large number said “No.” As a result, a higher percentage of Italian Jews were saved than in any other occupied country, aside from Denmark. The Italian role in the Holocaust is a complicated one, with condemnable official behavior, but an impressive popular rejection of anti-Semitic policies.

I really despise Nader as an individual.

Yes, I'm aware, and as I'm saying it makes absolutely no sense to me. Nader is a man who has dedicated his life to public service and to improving the conditions of life for people. Say what you want about the 2000 election but I firmly believe that Al Gore is responsible for Al Gore losing.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Say what you want about the 2000 election but I firmly believe that Al Gore is responsible for Al Gore losing.

Let the church say Amen

 

[Mouthwash]

Yes, I'm aware, and as I'm saying it makes absolutely no sense to me. Nader is a man who has dedicated his life to public service and to improving the conditions of life for people. Say what you want about the 2000 election but I firmly believe that Al Gore is responsible for Al Gore losing.

Sorry, I just looked him up... and apparently I was very confused about who Ralph Nader is.

 

[Lexicus]

Sorry, I just looked him up and apparently I was very confused about who Ralph Nader is.

I'll take that. Who'd you think he was, out of curiosity?

 

[Mouthwash]

I'll take that. Who'd you think he was, out of curiosity?

I'm not sure. I saw his name on the same page as some lefty/conspiracy nut quotes and thought he said them.

(Don't ask me to find it again, it was some blog I found through another blog. )

 

[Lexicus]

I'm not sure. I saw his name on the same page as some lefty/conspiracy nut quotes and thought he said them.

(Don't ask me to find it again, it was some blog I found through another blog. )

Thanks, that made me LOL

 

[red_elk]

I've never heard about Nader before this thread too. Seems like a sensible left-wing politician. A pity that people like him have next to zero chances to win presidential campaign.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Well, sort of...there were some other countries involved, too, I'm pretty sure something called the "Red Army" played a fairly important role the second time around...

First of all... your failure to recognize the well established revisionist history that casts Murica as the heroic saviors of Europe/single-handed Nazi-defeaters is frankly unpatriotic and unAmerican #USAnumberone

Also...more importantly, fire engines/firefighter hats are Red (traditionally) so "Red Army" seems eerily appropriate...

 

[Akka]

If it's to end with the USSR in charge, then yeah, Mussolini is definitely a better option.

 

[danjuno]

Mussolini and Nader now tied at 43.3%. Hitler at 13.3%.

 

[Lexicus]

First of all... your failure to recognize the well established revisionist history that casts Murica as the heroic saviors of Europe/single-handed Nazi-defeaters is frankly unpatriotic and unAmerican #USAnumberone

Also...more importantly, fire engines/firefighter hats are Red (traditionally) so "Red Army" seems eerily appropriate...

 

[Broken_Erika]

Also...more importantly, fire engines/firefighter hats are Red (traditionally) so "Red Army" seems eerily appropriate...

Don't you realize that this is proof that Commies have infiltrated american fire fighters?
It's time to privatize all fire fighter departments, 100% for-profit fire fighting services, make fire fighting great again!