Who do you vote for? Read scenario first, plus response to Tim (post #4)

  • Hitler

    Votes: 3 7.7%
  • Mussolini

    Votes: 15 38.5%
  • Nader

    Votes: 18 46.2%
  • Abstain/blank

    Votes: 3 7.7%

  • Total voters
    39
I am not white, so I'll take the alternative least likely to get me gassed and vote Mussolini.

If I recall from past conversations, you are a Muslim correct? If so, the Nazis were actually on fairly good terms with Islamic nations and factions. Hindus as well. It's why even to this day, the Nazis and Hitler are seen in a much more positive light in those nations than they are in the West. One could argue that had the Nazis succeeded, they would have eventually attempted to exterminate Muslims as well, but all the evidence we have to go on suggests that the Nazis really didn't have a problem with them. In fact, there's even evidence to suggest Hitler himself spoke "warmly" of Islamic culture.

My point being that you probably wouldn't have been gassed under Hitler.
 
This question really demonstrated to me how committed I am to the "lesser of two evils" perspective.

Great thread Boots... thanks for having the balls to post it.

@Commodore - Hilarious to me that you're hard-selling Hitler (no sarcasm, love you anyway)... Just bolsters my sports team theory of politics... we pick a team and then ride-or-die with it.
 
Hilarious to me that you're hard-selling Hitler (no sarcasm, love you anyway)... Just bolsters my sports team theory of politics... we pick a team and then ride-or-die with it.

Well, as I said, the internet tells me I'm literally Hitler so if I don't sell myself no one else will.
 
Well, as I said, the internet tells me I'm literally Hitler so if I don't sell myself no one else will.
My point exactly... I read it the same as "I live in Cleveland and everyone gives me crap over the Browns, so eff it, I'm rydeordie for the Browns, Dawgpoud4evah!"
 
Mussolini without hesitation. He was bad, but really nowhere near as bad as Hitler (in fact, he actually had a lot of scorn for Hitler, and would have prefered to side with UK and France if not for the demographic situation, which made him think that Germany was the future).
His government was not a pleasant place nor as amusing as the general incompetence of the fascists (making them look as harmless fools) made it appears, but it was a long, long way from the dystopian ultrainvasive appartus from nazi Germany.
 
Much of Mussolini's empire building (Albania, Greece) was done to show the Germans that Italy could build an empire too. So if he wasn't competing with Hiler then he would have been somewhat more mellow...Except for Ethiopia, kinda a historic grudge going on there.
 
I wouldn't be so sanguine, Mussolini really believed the crap he spewed about empire. That the purpose of the fascist state was war was something the fascists went on and on. They were from a time when to be a big power was to have an empire, the UK and France had them. Even the US had felt a need to steal the spanish colonies and have its own.
Mussolini was just rational enough to fear making war on the existent colonial empires to steal some colonies. The only place he could realistically grab land on was around the eastern Mediterranean, so he did it. Which targets he chose were a matter of opportunity. It might have been Turkey instead of Greece. And it would probably have been more rational, as Turkey's only supporter in the 30s (the USSR) was overstretched and willing to compromise. The Greeks could draw on french and british support as any attack on Greece would cause outrage there.
 
Yeah, I suppose I'd vote Mussolini. The thing is that your conscience is screwed either way. Either you voted for a bad guy or you helped bring true evil to power. You might as well be pragmatic then.

It's a very good question. I had a hard time understanding why some leftists in France couldn't bring it to themselves to vote for Macron to keep Le Pen from power. Yet when I was confronted with the dilemma in the OP I found it very hard to decide.
 
The poll results so far are interesting to me. Seems CFC supports Trump more than it lets on...
 
Also, for one moment I thought this thread was about Iran's elections. I'm surprised nobody has brushed the subject yet, considering the impact it might have on the entire world.
 
The poll results so far are interesting to me. Seems CFC supports Trump more than it lets on...
Please explain. I don't want to misinterpret... Are you reading the Hitler votes as proxy Trump or the Mussolini votes as proxy Trump or both? And by "more than it lets on"... are you saying that you felt like no CFC'ers support Trump? Cause I had the opposite impression... I felt like a lot of CFC'ers support Trump, but there are varying degrees of coyness with respect to actually being open about it.

Anyway, let me know what you were thinking on this.
 
Well, if you believe a vote for Nader (or not voting) is a vote for Hitler, then it's pretty close right now. Except Nader is not too far behind Mussolini, so you have to wonder how many "strategic votes" you would have to turn back to Nader for him to be a legit candidate. In the OP's scenario, we can probably assume that some of Mussolini's voters are "never Hitler" Nader supporters like I've been so many times.

One of the new wrinkles in the 3rd iteration of my time-loop was that there were some "never Mussolini" people who held their noses and voted for Hitler. That hadn't happened before. Some people say that Nader could have defeated Hitler in a 1-v-1, if only so many people didn't vote for Mussolini as a "strategy" against Hitler. I don't know if I believe that, but it's an interesting theory.
 
Please explain. I don't want to misinterpret... Are you reading the Hitler votes as proxy Trump or the Mussolini votes as proxy Trump or both? And by "more than it lets on"... are you saying that you felt like no CFC'ers support Trump? Cause I had the opposite impression... I felt like a lot of CFC'ers support Trump, but there are varying degrees of coyness with respect to actually being open about it.

Anyway, let me know what you were thinking on this.

Clinton = Hitler, and since the majority would vote Mussolini to keep Hitler out we are actually closet Trumpettes.

Ofcourse that assumes that most of us agree that Clinton is a murderous pizza paedophile funded by the Saudis.
 
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From the OP:

I took that to mean if the Nazis fail to achieve a plurality of the votes, they will not be in power. There aren't enough parties in this scenario for the Nazis to backdoor their way into power through a coalition and Hindenburg -being little more than a shambling corpse with fascist tendencies- is not present.
If we are forced to a situation where we are voting between who is the least horrifying, surely you would want to ensure that the least horrifying fascist comes into power? Otherwise you are forced into the ethical minefield like the Catholic Church found itself it, forced to declare "a pox on both your houses" in a farcical attempt to imply there was any sort of equivalency between the Grand Coalition and the Nazis.
If the question was whether we'd rather live under the Nazis or the Fascists, I'd agree. But the OP is posed explicitly in terms of an election, and an election assumes a function democracy in which norms are at least broadly respected. The moment either candidate wins, that democracy is abolished and those norms dissolved. Who can say what happens then? Do the Fascists integrate the Nazis? Do the Nazis stage a coup? An armed revolt? Mussolini assumed power without an election, staging one after his dictatorship was legally secure; Franco didn't feel the need to meet even that flimsy respectability. Why should we assume that the political situation here is any more stable, when the only thing we know about it is that it is absolutely hopeless? A vote for Mussolini is a glass of water in the Sahara.

Besides, if this election genuinely matters, voting is a half-measure. The true patriot would simply go out into the street and start killing Nazis. If you take out at least two of them, you've already double you're own impact on the election, and it's all a bonus from there. Whatever democratic and legal norms you've violating weren't going to survive the night, and they say it is better to die on one's feet than live on one's knees.

so, democracy is defined as a "right" by the people for the people but they have no "right" to abdicate from that rule? sounds tautological to me
That's it in a nutshell. Democracy is both a right and a responsibility, and the people do not have the right to abdicate their power. Democracy, fundamentally, is not based on the people's entitlement to good government- that could come from any aristocracy or monarchy- but on the commitment of the people to govern themselves well, a covenant that the citizenry makes with itself, the terms of which to do not permit the dissolution of that covenant, or at least not by anything else that the unanimous body of the people. As long as any two people continue to uphold the democratic principle, perhaps any one individual, then the republic survives and all other authority is absolutely illegitimate.

When France fell, De Gaulle argued that the the Republic did not have the right to dissolve itself in favour of a fascist state: conservative that he was, he couched this in obscure legal technicalities which may not actually have been true, but it was accepted by much of the French and Allied public because they recognised the essential truth that a free people can no more legislate themselves into tyranny than a free man can sell himself into slavery, and that the Republic therefore falls to those prepared to uphold it. I think that something similar applies here.
 
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I suppose we have to disagree on this Traitorfish.
 
Please explain. I don't want to misinterpret... Are you reading the Hitler votes as proxy Trump or the Mussolini votes as proxy Trump or both?

Mussolini as proxy Trump votes. It's more of a callback joke referencing all the comparisons of Trump to Mussolini during the election campaign.
 
Ditto Lexicus' reponse. But it's worth noting that the results are currently:
Mussolini 48.1%
Nader 37.0
Hitler 14.1

The polls (45-45-3) were off 34 percent on Nader's count, 31 on Hitler, but only 3 off on Mussolini?
 
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