[NFP] Ethiopia Update Discussion Thread

[God of Kings]

Civilization is dead.

Or at least full of dead things. Zombies, vampires...

Next the mode with Bill Murray as an alternate leaders for USA with a Ghostbuster UU. I mean... why not now ?

But now the immortal leaders thing finally make sense.

Can't wait for the time machine mode that will also explain the modern leaders in ancient era. Come on, who don't want Sengoku jieitai or The Final Countdown modes ? Ok, right, with the game's science/calendar ratio and the units gaps you can already use tanks against Samourai...

...and prove that scouts can defeat GDRs.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Civilization is dead.

Or at least full of dead things. Zombies, vampires...

Next the mode with Bill Murray as an alternate leaders for USA with a Ghostbuster UU. I mean... why not now ?

But those are all undead things?

 

[UWHabs]

Ok, so on the topic of envoys and the diplomatic district. In the video, the consulate yields 4 gold, 4 science, and 2 faith. The chancery grants 3 faith. So I am thinking that there is one level of envoys that provides +2 of the yield to the consulate building, and the next level of envoys provides +3 of a yield to the chancery building.

Ah, that could certainly explain things. I was wondering why 4/4/2 looked like awkward yields, and yeah, almost certainly that means the 3 envoy bonus gives you +2 of that yield in the consulate, and the +6 envoy bonus would give +3 of the yield to the consulate. So if you have a lot of CS envoys, you need those buildings ASAP for the bonuses, and that will certainly nerf wide empires and city-states too unless if there are other changes at play.

 

[Josephias]

No, I guess you're right. They mention Faith from trade routes and then show them using Faith to purchase a museum while saying, "and gives you new things to do with that Faith to claim a Culture victory." So, Faith + Culture. Which is kind of already how CV works... Eh.

Did it seem to me you can also purchase districts with faith as Ethiopia?. I don't think any belief has that...

You said the new district made the diplomacy game "obtuse" more than once, mind elaborating further on that, because calling it something without any explanation or evidence doesn't make it so. Envoy bonuses now tied to 1 district, if anything, makes the game easier to digest for newer players, since it is more streamlined to tie this to 1 district rather than 6 different districts for 6 different types of CSs, so how exactly is it "obtuse" or "complicating diplomacy"?. Sure, people can dislike fantasy theme of certain elements, but when it comes to gameplay, surprisingly you actually need to play the game to know if something is off or not. Complaining even before knowing what exactly something does is a classic move whenever something new is announced.

From what I underestood, I expect you should have the different diplomatic quarter buildings to "unlock" CS rewards (which implies nerfing them). I'm afraid it would go all the way to the 1-envoy reward (that may be now tied to your DQ (without buildings), and not your capitol. Then the Tier1-building reward will still affect speciallity district Tier1 buildings, but will requiere Tier1 DQ to be activated, and the same for the Tier2-building reward.

As Jewelrunna said, it will change the game a lot, but considering my last game with +10 faith shrines.... I'd say maybe it is necessary. DQ will give you more envoys so, on the other hand, could make bonuses more powerful once you unlock them, as you could fill more CS to 6 envoys, if you don't fight for specific suzerainities.

 

[Zaarin]

I love everything except the vampires. That being said, Secret Societies otherwise look fun (unlike Apocalypse mode). New Teddy and Catherine look nice. The Menelik II crowd should be happy. I'm disappointed no Zar'a Ya`qob, but I'm also pleased it's not Selassie so it balances out to happy.

 

[Kwami]

Did it seem to me you can also purchase districts with faith as Ethiopia?. I don't think any belief has that...

Moksha was in the city and he provides that ability.

 

[Joezumah]

Changes seem cool. Looking forward to them. I’m just a little confused why they’re focused on adding things like secret societies and implementing them in a way no one asked for. And all the while ignoring calls to implement things that people have asked for over and over again, like civil war, corporations, etc. It seems like they keep missing the mark a little bit.

 

[AvianBritish]

Did it seem to me you can also purchase districts with faith as Ethiopia?. I don't think any belief has that...




From what I underestood, I expect you should have the different diplomatic quarter buildings to "unlock" CS rewards (which implies nerfing them). I'm afraid it would go all the way to the 1-envoy reward (that may be now tied to your DQ (without buildings), and not your capitol. Then the Tier1-building reward will still affect speciallity district Tier1 buildings, but will requiere Tier1 DQ to be activated, and the same for the Tier2-building reward.

As Jewelrunna said, it will change the game a lot, but considering my last game with +10 faith shrines.... I'd say maybe it is necessary. DQ will give you more envoys so, on the other hand, could make bonuses more powerful once you unlock them, as you could fill more CS to 6 envoys, if you don't fight for specific suzerainities.

Puchasing districts with faith is linked to the Cardinal Governor's final promotion; just like puchasing districts with gold is linked to the Financier Govenor's final promotion.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I love everything except the vampires. That being said, Secret Societies otherwise look fun (unlike Apocalypse mode). New Teddy and Catherine look nice. The Menelik II crowd should be happy. I'm disappointed no Zar'a Ya`qob, but I'm also pleased it's not Selassie so it balances out to happy.

once sukritact voices his zara, you could always use it lol

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Secret Societies summary:
Hermetic Order (historical mod example: Golden Dawn)
Tier 1: Initiation (Unlocked by discovering a Natural Wonder)
Reveals the Ley Lines on the map. Ley Lines give a standard adjacency bonus to all specialty districts
Tier 2: Ritual (Unlocked: Medieval Era)
Allows you to construct the Alchemical Society building replacement of the University. Provides +1 Great Merchant Point, +1 Great Engineer point +2 Production, Campus generates Gold equal to its Science adjacency bonus.
Tier 3: Indoctrination (Unlocked: Industrial Era)
For every Great Person earned Ley Lines receive +1 yield will to that Great Person's district type. Great Admirals and Great Generals earn +1 Science
Tier 4: Master Plan
yet to come

Owls of Minerva (historical mod example: Bohemian Groove, Illuminati)
Tier 1: Initiation (Unlocked by sending an Envoy to a City State)
+1 Economic policy slot. Each Trade Route sent to City-State awards 1 Envoy there
Tier 2: Ritual (Unlocked: Medieval Era)
Allows you to construct the Gilded Vault building replacement of the Bank. Provides commercial hub adjacency bonus as a culture and grants additional Trade Route for a City with a Harbor
Tier 3: Indoctrination (Unlocked: Industrial Era)
+1 Wildcard policy slot. +2 Spy capacity. Your cities grain +4 Loyalty per turn and +1 Amenity when your Spy is in their territory
Tier 4: Master Plan
yet to come

Voidsingers (historical mod example: Templars)
Tier 1: Initiation (Unlocked by discovering a Tribal Village)
Allows you to construct the Old God Obelisk building, replacement of the Monument. +4 Faith +1 Great Work slot
Tier 2: Ritual (Unlocked: Medieval Era)
Cities earn Gold, Science and Culture per turn equal to 20% of their Faith per turn rate
Tier 3: Indoctrination (Unlocked: Industrial Era)
Unlocks the Cultist unit is purchased with Faith and uses charges to reduce loyalty in foreign cities and generate Relic od the Void
Tier 4: Master Plan (Unlocked: Atomic Era)
Unlocks Dark Summoning, a city project that provides lot's of Faith while active, and upon completion raises the amount of Loyalty damage done by Cultists.

Sanguine Pact (historical mod example: Assasins)
as far as we know:
Vampire unit
Vampire Castle UI
Teleport units between Vampire Castles

I understand people might be confused or even pissed with Vampires and level of fantasy here but it is very easily manageable with mods.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Changes seem cool. Looking forward to them. I’m just a little confused why they’re focused on adding things like secret societies and implementing them in a way no one asked for. And all the while ignoring calls to implement things that people have asked for over and over again, like civil war, corporations, etc. It seems like they keep missing the mark a little bit.

they announced secret societies at launch. those things could still happen.

 

[Tigranes]

- Since this pack seems to have a lot of focus on spies and espionage, I really hope they take this opportunity to rebalance (or just remove) "recruit partisans", which is nearly universally hated here and on r/civ.

I cannot disagree more. Does the world become safer when entire planet got covered with civs' culture and no more outposts can appear and produce barbarians? Why there are no barbarians in the late game, unless you have loyalty issues or someone recruited partisans? Late game barbarians -- terrorists, real partisans, guerrillas of all kind -- need more mechanic to represent them, not less. Planet Earth even got pirates as recently as 2017. Why don't we see trade roads pillaged in civ6's Information Age?

 

[CivLuvah]

My thoughts:

1. I quite like the previews of Ethiopia from this video, even though the full preview won't be out until some time soon. I like how they decided to use someone other than Haile Selassie, and I like how the stone church us now a UI, since there's a lot of those in Ethiopia besides the more famous one at Lalibela.
2. The Diplomatic Quarter is intriguing. I like the district buildings, but I couldn't imagine how the City State bonuses are tied to this district, or what the ramifications are. I hope someone could clear it up for me.
3. The double versions of Teddy and Catherine are... quite weird for me. I thought they were mostly cosmetic than mechanic. Also Catherine dressed in a carnaval outfit is jarring.
4. The Secret Societies mode is.... eh... I was expect more historical secret societies, but as one already mentioned it's for the best that they created made-up ones. Vampires are... a thing now. Ok. At least it's optional...

...which leads me to say: what's with the deal of people complaining about the direction of the game based on something that's optional? It's like complaining a new burger has bacon even though you're given the option not to have bacon on the burger.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Did it seem to me you can also purchase districts with faith as Ethiopia?. I don't think any belief has that...




From what I underestood, I expect you should have the different diplomatic quarter buildings to "unlock" CS rewards (which implies nerfing them). I'm afraid it would go all the way to the 1-envoy reward (that may be now tied to your DQ (without buildings), and not your capitol. Then the Tier1-building reward will still affect speciallity district Tier1 buildings, but will requiere Tier1 DQ to be activated, and the same for the Tier2-building reward.

As Jewelrunna said, it will change the game a lot, but considering my last game with +10 faith shrines.... I'd say maybe it is necessary. DQ will give you more envoys so, on the other hand, could make bonuses more powerful once you unlock them, as you could fill more CS to 6 envoys, if you don't fight for specific suzerainities.

I absolutely love it, cuz the game is less dependent on dumb luck. Running into a Religious CS first gives you a free Pantheon? Not anymore. Running into a Scientific or a Cultural CS first gives you free science and culture from turn 1 and change the game completely? Not anymore. I can't thank them enough for that change. Less RNG luck = More importance placed on you to make your decision.

 

[Zaarin]

once sukritact voices his zara, you could always use it lol

Eh, I'm not a fan of modded civs and leaders.

The double versions of Teddy and Catherine are... quite weird for me. I thought they were mostly cosmetic than mechanic. Also Catherine dressed in a carnaval outfit is jarring.

They said from the beginning it would be both. But yeah, Catherine's pink outfit is...disappointing. I was hoping they'd go with one of her pre-widowhood portraits, like the bejeweled gown. It seems to me they put a fair amount of effort into updating Teddy's wardrobe but just dipped CdM in pink paint and threw a mask on her.

 

[conorbebe]

Weird, just weird. Apocalypse Mode was one thing but this is a whole new level of absurdity and I'm not sure I like it.

Yes, this new content is optional, but that doesn't change the fact that it uses up development time and resources, which I think could be better allocated to reworking areas of the game and adding things that are actually based on history, as the game was originally envisioned. It almost feels like a joke to call Civilization VI a "historical" 4X strategy game now, and the childish tone of the developers don't give me much faith that we'll see much improvement later in the pass.

It's also extremely disappointing to see re-used assets. There are mods on the workshop that look more polished than some of things shown off in this video. The Diplomatic Quarter doesn't even have its own icon...

 

[Gedemon]

...and prove that scouts can defeat GDRs.

Because you won't be able to heal it... Actually thinking of it more you could really make something more balanced than it looks with that idea.

But yep, just saying I hope for the players that are more history than fantasy/SF that the next modes will bring them something, IMO two fantastic mode in a row wasn't a good idea.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

...which leads me to say: what's with the deal of people complaining about the direction of the game based on something that's optional? It's like complaining a new burger has bacon even though you're given the option not to have bacon on the burger.

Well, you must pay for this bacon extra money regardless you eat it or not. Without mods, a whole NFM is just a Civ pack. That's the reason for this complaining I think. I am ok with it. As I said Vampires can be redesign in the fan mod if it's too much for somebody. I don't use mods but in this particular case, I would consider this.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The double versions of Teddy and Catherine are... quite weird for me. I thought they were mostly cosmetic than mechanic. Also Catherine dressed in a carnaval outfit is jarring.

It was announced that Magnificent Catherine would use luxuries to gain tourism, so we already knew she would have to get a brand new ability.

 

[Jewelrunna]

Can you imagine having to play a "metagame" against AIs who are dumber than a post? And even on multiplayer, the existence of that district adds another layer of decision, so that "min-maxers" will not do the same thing every single game in the early game (a.k.a. the best part of the game) and then proceed to complain even more on why the game feels so stale. It makes the decision making process more complex without making the game more complicated, which is the exact opposite of "obtuse", which by definition means "difficult to understand". On the contrary, this district simplifies things.

But does the decision add anything meaningful to the game? No, I don't think so. It'll still be better to go for the districts you normally would and play Civ VI the way you would before. All that side-grading the Envoy bonuses does is give you less incentives to interact with City-States diplomatically until you can afford to cram the Diplomatic Quarter into you city build order. I imagine that, paradoxically, that adding this district will stilt the early game of interacting with City-States even more towards just conquering them. I mean, if you don't get those envoy bonuses, why bother?

I fail to see how this district "simplifies" things. Sure, you're getting all your envoy bonuses in one or two buildings, but now you have to jump through even more hoops to capitalize on them.