Euthanasia in the news again

[Borachio]

Tony Nicklinson dies

I can't even begin to express how much I'm opposed to euthanasia - for human beings.

I am almost speechless with vehemence.

Tony Nicklinson struggled for 7 years to get permission for his doctor to end his life without fear of prosecution.

Last week he failed. This week I learn he has been refusing food and drink since this failure, contracted pneumonia and died.

APPARENTLY, the only thing keeping him going was the struggle to have his own life ended.

Words fail me.

Of course, everyone has the right to suicide. And this man has proved it.

No one has the right to legally coerce another to assist them. This may overstate the case, as many would assist them willingly, but not by much.

Another case of locked in syndrome is this man who wrote the Diving Bell and the Butterfly by dictation with his one remaining functioning eyelid. An understandably short book. But compelling.

A man as previously as active as Nicklinson, and more disabled by a similar medical condition.

And yet a man who never lost his desire to live.

Argh! I could spit.

Tell me what you think.

(I do sympathize very much with this man's plight and what he felt about it. But if he was conscious, could see and communicate, he still had much to be grateful for and every reason to continue as long as he could. Why did he feel he couldn't?)

 

[warpus]

Of course, everyone has the right to suicide. And this man has proved it.

No one has the right to legally coerce another to assist them. This may overstate the case, as many would assist them willingly, but not by much.

Their life, their choice.

People should have the right to assisted suicide; who are we to make them suffer?

So instead of dying peacefully this guy had to starve to death? No, that is not right.

 

[JollyRoger]

It doesn't appear he was trying to coerce anyone into helping him - just attenpting to make it possible for a potentially willing doctor to assist him.

 

[Borachio]

Just so. I guess.

This man did not have to starve himself to death. He has, by being actively engaged in campaigning, demonstrated that he was still engaged with his life, though paradoxically focused on ending it.

 

[Quackers]

This is such a delicate issue but it is so difficult to use the law to help these peoples. The implications of getting it wrong are terrifying. It's not easy.
I remember hearing that parliament was strongly in favour of euthaniasia in principle but they could not envisage it done in a safe, humanitarian way. People dying in agony should have the right and choice; but how about the rest? Would doctors force dying patients to take a few extra 100mg of morphine to ease their passing? Would old people even think they are a burden and actually request their life ending early? That sort of pressure would be quite disgusting..

 

[dirtyparrot]

It's easy to be against it when you don't have to walk in their shoes.

 

[WindFish]

I think a person should have the right to end their own life if they can prove they are mentally sound.

 

[Borachio]

@dirtyparrot Baring sudden death, we all are following in their footsteps.

@windfish you cannot prevent a person ending their own life as this man has demonstrated. Sanity is not relevant.

 

[innonimatu]

Their life, their decision.

I used to be against legislating on euthanasia, for fear it would be abused. I still fear it will be abused. Very much. But I have to recognize that there are those people to whom killing themselves is physically extremely difficult. And they shouldn't be forced to starve themselves to death, they deserve help. Some means, some strict protocol, must be devised to let them have their will done in those extreme cases. But how?

 

[Borachio]

Wouldn't it be better to offer effective palliative care. And reassurance that life under all circumstances has dignity?

 

[WindFish]

No, because thats a lie and far more cruel than you ever want to believe.

There is a point where forcing someone to live when they don't want to is worse than letting them dying

 

[Truronian]

It should be complicated but possible to get permission for an assisted suicide. Clearly Nicklinson wanted to die: it wasn't just a whim. The drawn out court proceeding attest to that.

 

[Leonel]

I hope that either there's a cure for pancreatic cancer in the future or that I'll be allowed to end my life if I get it (knock knock on wood and God forbid!) without having to go through what my grandpa went through when he had it. Took him several weeks to finally pass away through the starvation route, all the while the cancer ravaged his body and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It's a few months past the 20th anniversary of me signing a piece of paper at a vet's office to euthanize my beloved Siamese cat, Cassandra. Cassandra was 14 years old, and had cancer. The vet could have kept her alive maybe another week or two. But she would have been in terrible pain and stress the entire time. I chose to be merciful to her and allow the vet to end her suffering... I did the morally correct thing, the loving thing, and yet I've still felt like a murderer all these years. However, if I'd chosen to let her suffer even more, just to have her for another week or two, I wouldn't have had Cassandra, as she already wasn't in her right mind. She was in too much pain to really know me, know what was going on, and ending her suffering was the only right thing I could do for her.

If people have the option to end the suffering of pets, why don't we have the option to end our own suffering if there's no hope of recovery or having a meaningful life?

 

[Borachio]

I appreciate your concern(s). But I think there's a danger that people simply get terrifed of pain and dying. And often feel helpless and worthless.

I don't think any of these fears are valid. For pain, palliative care can be highly effective.

The modern world is far too isolated from dying, as a rule, for it to be accepted as a normal part (albeit the end) of life.

It is something which must be faced - somehow or other - unless, naturally, you are immortal.

The animal case, usually, is somewhat different. The options for humans, because they are more self aware perhaps, are very much more various.

e.g. conscious suicide is not something I have heard of in an animal.

 

[emzie]

By definition, only humans really can commit suicide. No other animal is smart enough to consciously think, "I'm alive and I don't like that."

 

[Leonel]

There comes a point in the progression of pancreatic cancer where the amount of drugs required to keep away the pain is enough to make the patient unconscious with no chance of recovery. I can see where you're coming from but to give someone no choice but to die a slow and agonizing death is cruel to say the least.

 

[squadbroken]

I appreciate your concern(s). But I think there's a danger that people simply get terrifed of pain and dying. And often feel helpless and worthless.

I don't think any of these fears are valid. For pain, palliative care can be highly effective.

Right, because spending your last days in a semi-conscious fog of painkillers and delerium is just dandy.

I've seen it in practice, with family members no less, and I want no part of it. At all. It's disgusting and unnecessary.

 

[emzie]

Yeah. Palliative care at end-stage cancer is palliative for the family not the patient. As far as the patient is concerned, they're medicated to the extent that they might as well be dead. Oh but the family just sees a restful sleeping body.

Except that is NOT what they see. They see your shrivelled up bald corpse slowly breathing in and out passing the hours until you die. As far as I'm concerned, I'm dead once I lose consciousness and never regain it. If that means a week of so much opiates that I'm not awake, I died then. so give me the dignity of actually dying then rather than having my family change my diapers and feed me through a hose.

 

[aelf]

I find it utterly incredible that a person who is lively and healthy enough to post so actively on an Internet forum feels that he is able to extol the virtues of living to someone is who is so paralysed as to be unable to survive at all on his own.

As someone more famous once said, let them have cake.