Examples of quality writing?

[Glassfan]

Do not overrate it too much. I like it, but it's certainly not the best *science* fiction novel ever written.

Tastes do vary, lets agree it's a good read. The original short story, Flowers for Algernon (Daniel Keyes) is arguably the best SciFi ever written, but too brief to qualify.

 

[Flying Pig]

I have heard very good things about that book, although owing to its writing style it might not be a good contender for 'examples of quality writing', considering that the prose for most of the length of it is intentionally simplistic.

 

[Dell19]

Much agreement. Dune is certainly one of the best SciFi novels - as long as one is extremely careful not to read any of the prequel/sequels.

I enjoyed the sequels written by Frank Herbert. The books that I've read by Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert were not so good. The immediate prequel series was average whilst the Butlerian Jihad turned out to be worse.

 

[Winner]

Tastes do vary, lets agree it's a good read. The original short story, Flowers for Algernon (Daniel Keyes) is arguably the best SciFi ever written, but too brief to qualify.

It's not about tastes, it's about how you define science fiction. Dune is light on the science side. Also, it's not for everybody - many of my friends couldn't get over the... ruthlessness of it. Even the 'good' characters in Dune are cold, ruthless bastards by the standards of our society.

 

[Traitorfish]

Perhaps we could compromise and say that Dune is the best space opera novel?

 

[Winner]

Perhaps we could compromise and say that Dune is the best space opera novel?

Agree, if you add "with princesses". Just remembered Irulan, aww.

 

[Plotinus]

Probably the most consistently good science fiction I've read is Ian M. Banks' Culture series. It's basically literary fiction in a space opera setting, but endlessly imaginative in a wittily brutal kind of way.

I know the OP asked for books and films, but actually some of the best writing I've encountered recently is the webcomic Achewood. It starts poorly but becomes brilliant. The author has such a wonderful way with words.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Much agreement. Dune is certainly one of the best SciFi novels - as long as one is extremely careful not to read any of the prequel/sequels.

Or the "interquels" (best word we could come up with for the atrocities Paul of Dune and Winds of Dune). Trust me - Paul Atreides did NOT run away from Caladan to join the circus when he was 12 (and he wasn't born on Kaitain either, dammit!). There's NO way you can square these with Duke Leto's statement that the trip to Arrakis is Paul's first trip off-world. The only way KJA/BH managed was to say in Paul of Dune that Frank Herbert's ORIGINAL novel, Dune itself, is nothing more than a propaganda tract written by Princess Irulan!

This is total BS, of course, and is KJA's way of saying <expletive, with elevated middle digit> to the older fans who keep calling him out on the mistakes, inconsistencies, retcons, and total disregard for the internal rules Frank Herbert established for the series.

It's not about tastes, it's about how you define science fiction. Dune is light on the science side. Also, it's not for everybody - many of my friends couldn't get over the... ruthlessness of it. Even the 'good' characters in Dune are cold, ruthless bastards by the standards of our society.

One of Frank Herbert's intentions was to show how blindly following heroes is dangerous, because they are merely humans, with the capacity to become perverted reflections of what they once stood for.

I would argue, however, that Chani is one of the "good guys" - and the only ruthless thing she does is kill a Fremen who tries to challenge Paul's leadership. Her reasoning is that she didn't think he was worth Paul's time to dispatch himself - and to convey to any other hotheaded Fremen that if Paul-Muad'Dib's woman could kill a male Fremen warrior, how much harder would it be to kill Paul-Muad'Dib himself?

Agree, if you add "with princesses". Just remembered Irulan, aww.

Princess Irulan is certainly not the "aww" sort of royalty in the novels. She is definitely cold and ruthless, and extremely mean and spiteful. In the TV miniseries, however, she's presented in a much more sympathetic, human way, and I've come to see this character in a new light as a result.

 

[Winner]

One of Frank Herbert's intentions was to show how blindly following heroes is dangerous, because they are merely humans, with the capacity to become perverted reflections of what they once stood for.

Well, true, but the book(s) really come off as very cold, and many people don't like that. Personally, I loved it, but I am weird.

Princess Irulan is certainly not the "aww" sort of royalty in the novels. She is definitely cold and ruthless, and extremely mean and spiteful.

She has good reasons to be that way. I grew attached to the character because I really, really like the sound of that name (if I could, I'd name my daughter after her ), and because she is the chronicler/intellectual guide to the world of Dune.

In the TV miniseries, however, she's presented in a much more sympathetic, human way, and I've come to see this character in a new light as a result.

Definitely. Most characters are presented in a much more sympathetic manner than in the books. Irulan is a bit of a tragic character there, which only makes me like her more.

---

BTW, back to the thread's question: if you want to read a really good, deep, and 'realistic' science-fiction, I recommend the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson (Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars). Excellent stuff, very well written and firmly based in known science, even though Robinson uses the story to explore human psychology and possible future developments of human social thinking.

 

[holy king]

valka, you know you can just ignore those books, do you?

 

[sanabas]

I suspect a few of you convicts down under can put pen to word processor. Why don't you suggest an Aussie writer we can check out?

Andrew McGahan - Praise, Underground, Last Drinks were all pretty good, others not as much.

John Birmingham - He died with a felafel in his hand and its sequel, The Tasmanian Babes Fiasco are both extremely funny, and paint a scarily realistic picture of life in share houses. He's done half a dozen novels in recent years. Without Warning is the first of a group of 3, and Weapons of Choice is another trilogy. Wouldn't call them quality writing, but if you like Tom Clancy style technobabble, you should like them.

Thomas Keneally - I found Schindler's Ark (which Schindler's List was based on) long & boring. The Chant of Jimmie Blacksmith was good though.

Victor Kelleher - Not sure if he's actually written anything aimed at adults, but his stuff aimed at teenagers is very good. I first read Taronga when I was nine, and I still love it. Which also reminds me, I found http://cbca.org.au/9099.htm which is a list of australian children's book of the year award nominees. I read all 6 of those nominated for 1990 back when I was 12/13, and liked all of them. Don't think I've read Came Back to show you I could fly in years, I should find a copy of that.



I too think Dune is an excellent book, and don't like most of the sequels. I too wouldn't call it sci-fi. Charles Stross (Glasshouse & Halting State in particular), Iain Banks, Spider Robinson's Lifehouse trilogy, Michael Marshall Smith would be right up there as my favourite scifi authors. Michael Marshall Smith has also published at least 5 excellent thrillers as Michael Marshall (Straw Men trilogy, and two others). But if forced to pick a favourite sci-fi author this week, I'd go with John Wyndham. Chocky, The Chrysalids, The Midwich ****oos, The Day of the Triffids are all fantastic.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Dune is the only case where i preferred the movie (the original one by David Lynch) to the book, maybe because i watched it first. The first time i saw it being a child i was like WTH? but later i have learnt to appreciate it.

About well written fiction i would recommend you Borges. You hardly will find any better. Dont know about the quality of English traductions though. After reading any of his many short stories you always think: "Wow! this guy knew a lot of strange things".

 

[Valka D'Ur]

valka, you know you can just ignore those books, do you?

I could... but it would be a disservice to the legacy of the original Dune and the idea that just because something has "Dune" on it, that doesn't make it a good book unless it is internally consistent with the tenets established by the original creator. KJA/BH not only don't understand Dune - they don't even understand basic science such as how relativity works. And as I said elsewhere, it would be wrong to criticize the nuDune books unless I've read them myself; otherwise, I'd just be parroting somebody else's words instead of making up my own mind.

But if forced to pick a favourite sci-fi author this week, I'd go with John Wyndham. Chocky, The Chrysalids, The Midwich ****oos, The Day of the Triffids are all fantastic.

I had to read The Chrysalids in my Grade 10 English class (in 1977). It gave me one of the worst nightmares I've ever had in my life.

Dune is the only case where i preferred the movie (the original one by David Lynch) to the book, maybe because i watched it first. The first time i saw it being a child i was like WTH? but later i have learnt to appreciate it.

The movie did a lot of things right... but the things it did wrong were whoppers. The worst of all was the rain at the end. Frank Herbert was NOT pleased about that, since rain would have killed the sandworms and destroyed the spice cycle.

 

[Cutlass]

In the scifi realm I think that the books written by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle are excellent writing. Much better than either author has done on their own, or with a 3rd party.

 

[Traitorfish]

valka, you know you can just ignore those books, do you?

You can and you can't. Once they're out there, they're in the fandom, so unless you read the series in what amounts to isolation, you're going to find yourself bumping into them.

 

[Ajidica]

In the scifi realm I think that the books written by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle are excellent writing. Much better than either author has done on their own, or with a 3rd party.

I always preferred Niven on his own. While A Mote in God's Eye was good, their other books (the Legacy of Heorot for example) didn't flow all that well. It seemed to me they went out of their way to make the aliens needlessly complex. All the complexity did was to drag the book out by constantly giving them a 'new' enemy to fight.

Although the sequels weren't as good, Ringworld will always hold a special place in my heart as the first 'real' sci-fi book I read.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

In the scifi realm I think that the books written by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle are excellent writing. Much better than either author has done on their own, or with a 3rd party.

I never read anything they collaborated on. I have read books they've written separately, and enjoyed those. Larry Niven's novel A Gift From Earth is particularly relevant to modern readers, since it deals with the ethics and politics of compulsory organ donation and organ cloning. I recommend that anyone interested in these issues read this book.

You can and you can't. Once there out there, they're in the fandom, so unless you read the series in what amounts to isolation, you're going to find yourself bumping into them.

Indeed. And considering that Kevin J. Anderson has ties to Scientology, he can't resist sticking a bunch of nonsense mysticism into the books where it most certainly doesn't belong.

 

[W|M]

Outside of sci-fi, I recommend Pillars of the Earth and World Without End by Ken Follett as great books.

 

[Glassfan]

The only Dune sequal worth reading;

 

[Serutan]

The only Dune sequal worth reading;
View attachment 329434

The problem is I read Bored of the Rings (IMHO the most brilliant book parody
ever) first. Doon wasn't bad, but the Lampoon spoiled me badly with Bored.

But I do agree it is better than any of the sequels except Dune Messiah.