Executive action

[FriendlyFire]

Some of those are reasonable or have happened. Some assume as fact things that are not true. Some are just strange.

What was your point? J

Its very easy to demand that the border be secure ?

Dont worry the Republicans will create a new US Federal government department, Well call it the Security Terrorism American Republican Special (STARS), give them sweeping (anti bio terrorism) powers, allocate a few Billion dollars.
Mission accomplished.

 

[Cutlass]

Ah. So we are back at the magical fence that costs no money, since it is a conservative's desire.

Or as Romney planned (and I use the term loosely) a high tech fence.

"Securing the border" is pretty much just dog-whistle racism. The people arguing for it know that it's a pointless boondoggle. But so long as they hold out for it, no legitimate action can take place. And, in the meantime, it takes a lot of money from those who need it and spend it on something useless which sidetrack billions to well connected contractors.

 

[James Stuart]

"Securing the border" is pretty much just dog-whistle racism. The people arguing for it know that it's a pointless boondoggle. But so long as they hold out for it, no legitimate action can take place. And, in the meantime, it takes a lot of money from those who need it and spend it on something useless which sidetrack billions to well connected contractors.

Do the Republicans actually want any action to take place on illegal immigration, one way or another? I've often thought that the Chinese government loves having Taiwan around as a bogeyman for its people, and many Arab states think of Israel the same way. "Illegals" are a nice soft target for Australian reactionariesconservatives to attack to win votes, and now that our Federal government has arguably 'solved' the problem it is costing them votes, as it turns out people don't like refugees being treated like cattle and raped in detention centres, even though they also don't want them living here.

Is it possible the Republicans like the status quo, as with abortion, because having an easy target to vilify - "illegals," "baby-killers" - helps them to rally their base, while 'solving' the problem, by building a fence or granting an amnesty, would eliminate one of their base policy platforms?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Do the Republicans actually want any action to take place on illegal immigration, one way or another? I've often thought that the Chinese government loves having Taiwan around as a bogeyman for its people, and many Arab states think of Israel the same way. "Illegals" are a nice soft target for Australian reactionaries[/r]conservatives to attack to win votes, and now that our Federal government has arguably 'solved' the problem it is costing them votes, as it turns out people don't like refugees being treated like cattle and raped in detention centres, even though they also don't want them living here.

Is it possible the Republicans like the status quo, as with abortion, because having an easy target to vilify - "illegals," "baby-killers" - helps them to rally their base, while 'solving' the problem, by building a fence or granting an amnesty, would eliminate one of their base policy platforms?

Basically correct.

 

[dutchfire]

About border security, the sources I've read say that 40-50% of the undocumented aliens come in on legitimate visa, not by crossing the Rio Grande.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

About border security, the sources I've read say that 40-50% of the undocumented aliens come in on legitimate visa, not by crossing the Rio Grande.

The magical high tech fence will reach out and snare them when their visa expires.

 

[bhsup]

About border security, the sources I've read say that 40-50% of the undocumented aliens come in on legitimate visa, not by crossing the Rio Grande.

Yet another problem with the whole use of the phrase "undocumented alien" or the more commonly used "undocumented immigrant." They are, in fact, documented. Though the main problem with it is that it is a blatant attempt by the media to alter the mental views of people. Can't go around saying "illegal alien" cuz that's just not nice. We'll call them "undocumented immigrants" instead.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Yet another problem with the whole use of the phrase "undocumented alien" or the more commonly used "undocumented immigrant." They are, in fact, documented. Though the main problem with it is that it is a blatant attempt by the media to alter the mental views of people. Can't go around saying "illegal alien" cuz that's just not nice. We'll call them "undocumented immigrants" instead.

We could go back to calling them "Poor huddled masses" ?
In Australia we call them "Boat people" even though 95% of our illegals are visa over-stayers.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yet another problem with the whole use of the phrase "undocumented alien" or the more commonly used "undocumented immigrant." They are, in fact, documented. Though the main problem with it is that it is a blatant attempt by the media to alter the mental views of people. Can't go around saying "illegal alien" cuz that's just not nice. We'll call them "undocumented immigrants" instead.

If their visa is expired they are, in fact, undocumented.

 

[bhsup]

Documentation exists of them entering was my point. That stuff doesn't magically disappear the second the visa expires. Well, I guess in the Obama administration it can...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Documentation exists of them entering was my point. That stuff doesn't magically disappear the second the visa expires. Well, I guess in the Obama administration it can...

Why not? My driver's license isn't good enough to identify me as a voter if it expires. Despite my picture still being on it it effectively ceases to exist. Why wouldn't a visa?

 

[bhsup]

And yet expired or not, valid to be used as ID or not, I suspect your State has somewhere in the bowels of all its record keeping, a record if it having been issued to you. Documented.

 

[Cutlass]

Do the Republicans actually want any action to take place on illegal immigration, one way or another? I've often thought that the Chinese government loves having Taiwan around as a bogeyman for its people, and many Arab states think of Israel the same way. "Illegals" are a nice soft target for Australian reactionariesconservatives to attack to win votes, and now that our Federal government has arguably 'solved' the problem it is costing them votes, as it turns out people don't like refugees being treated like cattle and raped in detention centres, even though they also don't want them living here.

Is it possible the Republicans like the status quo, as with abortion, because having an easy target to vilify - "illegals," "baby-killers" - helps them to rally their base, while 'solving' the problem, by building a fence or granting an amnesty, would eliminate one of their base policy platforms?

No, they don't. That is, the Republican base primary voter does not want action on immigration. And will not thank any Republican primary candidate who does try to take action.

That's not to say that the Republican base primary voter doesn't want to see the illegal immigrants gone. Many of them want to see all of the immigrants gone. But they also have a deep seated fear that there won't be any immigration law done which doesn't allow at least some amnesty for many of those illegal immigrants already here. And, so, no deal is the best deal, because it leaves the questions open.

 

[El_Machinae]

Probably so, eventually. To start, they want border security to secure the border. You know, do their job. It's politically incorrect, but its what they want.

J

I don't think it's politically incorrect. It's a bit of a red herring. If it's a resource problem, it's a resource problem. Borders are like insulation, it's not like doing a half-assed job is of any use.

What's the impression, that they're not using their budget to try to stop people from crossing? Because of political correctness? That's just not reasonable.

 

[onejayhawk]

What's the impression, that they're not using their budget to try to stop people from crossing? Because of political correctness? That's just not reasonable.

Exactly. All three points.

J

 

[James Stuart]

We could go back to calling them "Poor huddled masses" ?
In Australia we call them "Boat people" even though 95% of our illegals are visa over-stayers.

Most of those people aren't brown or yellow, and are therefore not illegal. Don't you listen to our glorious Immigration Minister's weekly non-chats? Oh, that's right, he stopped giving them when the Sri Lankans launched a court case.

 

[El_Machinae]

Exactly. All three points.

J

No wonder people are so mad. They're criticising an illusion. Falling for a partisan trap.

 

[onejayhawk]

No wonder people are so mad. They're criticising an illusion. Falling for a partisan trap.

The illusion is a patrolled border. For purely political reasons, it is porous as a sieve. The human smuggling is bad enough, but contraband is also getting through. On that point the Republicans have a completely legitimate gripe.

On the undocumented immigrant side, what makes it a red herring is that, by far, the larger problem is short term visas.

J

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The illusion is a patrolled border. For purely political reasons, it is porous as a sieve. The human smuggling is bad enough, but contraband is also getting through. On that point the Republicans have a completely legitimate gripe.

On the undocumented immigrant side, what makes it a red herring is that, by far, the larger problem is short term visas.

J

For political reasons?

You find that more likely than the "it runs through hundreds of miles of barren desert" logistical reasons? Really? Or are you just pretending you think it is for political reasons for political reasons?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's just reality. Everyone knows reality has a liberal bias, so you just brought that up for political reasons.