Existing Buildings Discussion

[JosEPh_II]

what about giving all city farms +1 pollution and give forests -1 or 2 water pollution

We just got +1 removed from farms like Cow, Horse, etc., why do you want +1 pollution, either air or water? What is there to counter it?

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya

Alchemist's Lab
1. Going to pick the upgrade method since it goes obsolete at scientific method.

Bronzesmith, Coppersmith, Ironsmith
2. Going to hold off on this since I want to redo the whole metal/ore stuff.

Construction Firm
3. I will have to think about this. I think they both should exist at the same time.

Sewer System
4. I agree. I will change.

Workhouse
5. This was a core building so I was not really aware of it. Sure the change seems fine.

Caravan Post
6. I will have to double check if the Bison Trainer requires the Oxen Farm. But I will at least fix it to be a Llama Trainer instead of a Llama Farm, now that we have one.

Mech Assembly Plant
7. Ok.

 

[Vokarya]

@Vokarya
Caravan Post
6. I will have to double check if the Bison Trainer requires the Oxen Farm. But I will at least fix it to be a Llama Trainer instead of a Llama Farm, now that we have one.

I checked; Bison Trainer does NOT require Oxen Farm. I may have a few more suggestions; I'm looking at figuring out some of the early Naval stuff. It's pretty good right now, but I would like to move a couple of things around.

 

[ls612]

We just got +1 removed from farms like Cow, Horse, etc., why do you want +1 pollution, either air or water? What is there to counter it?

JosEPh

Some buildings and features give -pollution. And 1 pollution a turn is generally less damaging than 1 .

 

[Faustmouse]

1) The Boatyard goes obsolete at Navigation, which unlocks the upgraded version of the Boatyard, the Marina. This results in a little gap. So maybe make the Boatyards go obsolete at a little later tech, or move the Marina to Astrolabe.

2) If you build a Castle Gatehouse and a Moat in a coastal city, ships can't pass by until Astronomy. That kind of unrealistic - you can't build a moat IN the ocean...

3) House of Parliament requires Glassware OR Fiberglass. Why Fiberglass?

4) Zebra Trainer goes obsolete at Aviation, way later than the other megafauna wonders.

 

[Praetyre]

I'll field that third one: the fiberglass is to account for the change in window materials after the Industrial age.

 

[Koshling]

1) The Boatyard goes obsolete at Navigation, which unlocks the upgraded version of the Boatyard, the Marina. This results in a little gap. So maybe make the Boatyards go obsolete at a little later tech, or move the Marina to Astrolabe.

2) If you build a Castle Gatehouse and a Moat in a coastal city, ships can't pass by until Astronomy. That kind of unrealistic - you can't build a moat IN the ocean...

3) House of Parliament requires Glassware OR Fiberglass. Why Fiberglass?

4) Zebra Trainer goes obsolete at Aviation, way later than the other megafauna wonders.

Easy change would be to make ZOCs apply only to land tiles, apart from promotion ZOCs which could be made to apply only to e same domain that the great commander concerned is in (so if he's on land it's a land ZOC, if he's on a ship it's a water ZOC)

 

[Hydromancerx]

1) The Boatyard goes obsolete at Navigation, which unlocks the upgraded version of the Boatyard, the Marina. This results in a little gap. So maybe make the Boatyards go obsolete at a little later tech, or move the Marina to Astrolabe.

2) If you build a Castle Gatehouse and a Moat in a coastal city, ships can't pass by until Astronomy. That kind of unrealistic - you can't build a moat IN the ocean...

3) House of Parliament requires Glassware OR Fiberglass. Why Fiberglass?

4) Zebra Trainer goes obsolete at Aviation, way later than the other megafauna wonders.

1. I like the idea of moving Marina up to Astrolabe.

4. That's because you can make Zebra Calvary but the others don't have later units.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Sheesh! You don't pay attention for a week and all sorts of stuff happens.

1) I think Health Spa should decrese disease. (and the great doc Spezialist as well)

By how much? Can we have property increases on specialists now?

I've been compiling a list of some more minor building suggestions. Let me know what you think of these.

Bronzesmith, Coppersmith, Ironsmith
I feel these buildings should probably go obsolete or be superseded by the time you get to the Foundry. I can see a drawback in cutting off the Bullion resource -- is it necessary for anything other than the Jeweler? I personally don't think of Iron as being Bullion. Perhaps we should add a Bullion resource to the Foundry. I wouldn't do this to the Goldsmith or Silversmith as I see those as more art than production

Like Hydro says we need to do some work on these so they should stay as they are for now.

1) The Boatyard goes obsolete at Navigation, which unlocks the upgraded version of the Boatyard, the Marina. This results in a little gap. So maybe make the Boatyards go obsolete at a little later tech, or move the Marina to Astrolabe

4) Zebra Trainer goes obsolete at Aviation, way later than the other megafauna wonders.

I reckon boatyards should upgrade to marinas not go obsolete.

Zebras are the same as horses and can produce latter units. Oh Hydro answered that.

 

[Faustmouse]

Ah that explains the issue with the zebra trainer, thanks

As for the Health Spa, I have no idea. I would say 5 because it's kind of a wonder, but I also think the Healer's Hut and such need a higher -Disease as well. Maybe 3 instead of 1. To counter this you could make them cost more per turn.

 

[ls612]

By how much? Can we have property increases on specialists now?

Maybe? I know we can do it with Expressions, but I don't think that those expressions are on Specialists yet.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I put the property stuff on the specialist - it did not fall over but it does not get reported in the pedia either.

 

[Faustmouse]

1) You should make Landmines require Mine Warfare since this Tech is empty. You could also give Mine Warfare an "Enemy units take 5% damage when standing next to one of your cities/forts"

2) Why does the National Park gives -20 Air Pollution but the Statepark, which isn't a NW and hasn't a big negative effect (removes coal....) gives -50 Pollution to both Air and Water?

 

[Thunderbrd]

1) You should make Landmines require Mine Warfare since this Tech is empty. You could also give Mine Warfare an "Enemy units take 5% damage when standing next to one of your cities/forts"

2) Why does the National Park gives -20 Air Pollution but the Statepark, which isn't a NW and hasn't a big negative effect (removes coal....) gives -50 Pollution to both Air and Water?

1) I still need to help DH with some tags for the Mine Warfare mod - its on the list (3rd tier so it'll be a bit yet).

2) Good point.

 

[Faustmouse]

1) I still need to help DH with some tags for the Mine Warfare mod - its on the list (3rd tier so it'll be a bit yet).

It would also be cool if there was a Mines Improvement available. Once build, it gives the plot 20% Damage per turn (if possible, only for enemy units). What also bugs me a bit is that ships only get damage if they end their turn on a reef, but not if they just pass it. The same problem would be for the Mines.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

Thanks for the feedback. I fixed both the Landmines and the National Park.

 

[Faustmouse]

You're welcome

I think the National Park needs some more changes.
Why does it only remove the access to coal? Isn't Oil just as bad? Or Uranium?
I am not sure if it should remove the access to coal at all. Just because you have a National Park you are not forbidden to import coal, aren't you?

I think there are three options:

1) Make the Nationalpark only buildable if in the city the water and air pollution is lower than... uhm... no idea. Maybe 200 each? I am not sure how realistic that is. And remove the "removes access from coal" thing.

2) Make the Nationalpark remove the access from Coal, Oil, Uranium and any other ressources that goes in this direction. Maybe even Deer or Whale or Fisch etc because your city isn't allowed to hunt inside the National Park.

3) Let the city still have access to Coal but disable the ability to build highly pollutioning buildings like Coal Powerplant, Landfill, Garbage Dock etc.

However, I like the 1st option by far most. It would make sense that you build your Natinal Park in a city that's clean and not say: "Hmm... Our Water is almost undrinkable, our forstes die because of the acid rain, we barely can breath in that toxic smog all around here... We should definitly build a park here!"

It would also be cool if it places an "National Park" improvement on a random Forest (or maybe also Jungle/ Hill/ Peak/ Desert/ Savanna...?) like Manchu Piccu does. It would give -1 Food, -1 Production, +10 Commerce, +5 Health, -20 Air and -20 Water Pollution (for example).

 

[Hydromancerx]

0. Its from Vanilla Civ. I have no idea why but that's how the National Park was set up.

1. Eh. Its suppose to help you. If your pollution is already good why do you need to build it?

2. I will have to think on that one.

3. I don't know. I don't really like that choice either.

4. You can still set aside land for a national park and have it polluted. The point of the park is that you do have an area that is left its in natural state. Personally I don't see why a city cannot have both dirty industry and land set aside for a national park. Sure the national park will become dirty from it but its better than having all your land converted into dirty industry.

5. We do have improvements like that. Like the Safari and Forest Preserve. But the Manchu Piccu stuff sounds more like a WW type of effect. Maybe even have a "Yellowstone" wonder or something.

 

[Faustmouse]

Yeah, if you Pollution is already low it's strong bonus for those isn't really helpfull indeed. There must be another effect than. I know it's from Vanilla but I think it could use a change with that coal. As you set, you can have both, a park and industrie in your city. You could leave it the way it is now I think, except for the Coal-part.

I know there are forst preservatives and stuff, but I thought about something more. A national park is very big I think. And why do you need a WW to have the Manchu Piccu effect? It is already a NW, I don't see any reason why not all civs could have ONE very good improvement.
However, Yellowstone sounds great


EDIT:

1) The Montreal Biodome is now a NW so I think it should be renamed. Also, it still only produces Bears, Lions and Wolfes. Why not the other anmials? I think Hydro mentioned he has some ideas of early animal producing buildings, what about those?

2) Botanical Gardens needs some more - Ari Pollution compared to the Aboretum (?). I think of something around -20.

3) Why does the Microbiology Lab produce Air-Pollution? I think in the beginning they don't used laminars so they won't produce much air pollution. They are used in the labs today, but even though they have a high flowtrough, they don't produce polluted air because there are filters in there and the outflowing air is more sterile than normal air.

 

[strategyonly]

What is the purpose of this "buildings?" I dont understand it, or why anyone would even consider using it?? Am i missing something??