Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Vehem]

Financial could have something to do with it, or simply the lost land civic (which is basically a GoN with additional commerce instead of health). Maibe tuning down lost land to 0.5 happiness per tile?

That'd be nice (was the original plan in fact) but <FeatureHappinessChange> only takes Integers.

 

[Demus]

I don't know the programming part of civ, so i don't know if this is possible or not, but why not just make it +1 happiness per 2 tiles? or even change the tile itself, giving +0,5 happiness (should be possible), but requiring a certain tech/civic to activate (look at unique features for that, like FotL giving additional food to yddrasil)?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Btw Psychic, what's the strat you're using? Swamps on flatlands, mines on hills, rush tracking, then temples?

thats pretty much it, rush plantations and mining (usually only have dyes, sugar bananas, gems and or/gold) for quick cash, then rush catacomb libralis and great library, then tracking, then go for divination and elementalism and then the wyvern temples. then rush the Wyvern himself. i never built any improvements other than what goes on the resources. not even mines. i had no need for them. (seriously, some wonders took 1 turn in my capital at one stage)

i think you guys could be right about the lost lands civic.

 

[Wyrmhero]

I think you should be able to run Blood & Sacrifice, and Slavery at the same time, as otherwise, you have no way for a slave Civ to get slaves (without joining the Undercouncil) Maybe move B&S to a Compassion Civic?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i agree with Wyrnhero, B&S makes good sense as a compassion civic, and running it together with slavery fits the Cualli perfectly.

 

[woodelf]

I've been thinking about the mounted line and the changes needed to the lizzies.

We need a new resource or can assume one is available always. Basically their horsemen now are simply a different breed of lizards.

Make these units available at animal husbandry which will give the lizards an early advantage. The advantage will disappear later, fear not. I'm not sure what to do about the Horseback Riding tech, but it will be needed for lizard archer riders later on. Now for the disadvantage they get...remove the chariot option from them completely. This gives them a serious lack of firepower in this time frame, but is more true to how they would evolve in swamps, marsh, and jungle. Thoughts?

And the horsemen still need a better name. Basilisks and then Basilisk Riders?

 

[Ekolite]

I would prefer the lizzies to ride on bassalisk lizard type things rather then the dinosaurs that they have right now. Agree with having no chariots. The mounted line isn't going to be a big focus of a lizard civ, I'd be happy with just a basilisk and then a basilisk rider at a later tech. Maybe we could combine their mounted and siee line? Basilisks with bombard etc? They ram the gates/walls down?

 

[Vehem]

I don't know the programming part of civ, so i don't know if this is possible or not, but why not just make it +1 happiness per 2 tiles? or even change the tile itself, giving +0,5 happiness (should be possible), but requiring a certain tech/civic to activate (look at unique features for that, like FotL giving additional food to yddrasil)?

Working on altering the "Integer" requirement for the tag at the moment, but it's quite an involved process (requiring the DLL to be altered) as it's hooked into a lot of places. If I manage it, we could have Jungle being worth 0.5 with Lost Lands, Forests being worth 0.5 with Fellowship and Ancient Forests being worth 0.75 (the last part might be enough to sell the idea to Kael as a possible "tone-down" of the elven super cities).

EDIT: I. hate. CvCity.h. (and header files in general).

 

[Vehem]

Working on altering the "Integer" requirement for the tag at the moment, but it's quite an involved process (requiring the DLL to be altered) as it's hooked into a lot of places. If I manage it, we could have Jungle being worth 0.5 with Lost Lands, Forests being worth 0.5 with Fellowship and Ancient Forests being worth 0.75 (the last part might be enough to sell the idea to Kael as a possible "tone-down" of the elven super cities).

EDIT: I. hate. CvCity.h. (and header files in general).

Woot. Nailed it.

Civilopedia is still reporting "+50 Happiness from Deep Jungle", but it is in fact adding 0.50 happiness per Deep Jungle tile in-game. The 'pedia should be an easy enough fix.

Basically - "Feature Happiness" (for Civics) can now be set to any decimal value in the same way as "Feature Health" is for forest/flood plains etc.

 

[woodelf]

Nice work.

Any comments on the mounted line?

 

[Tarquelne]

Basically - "Feature Happiness" (for Civics) can now be set to any decimal value in the same way as "Feature Health" is for forest/flood plains etc.

*clap* *clap* *clap* That's great!

 

[Vehem]

Nice work.

Thanks - now I just need to plead to get it into the DLL.

Any comments on the mounted line?

Hmm - adding a new strategic resource seems excessive for just this one purpose, especially as it has no re-trade value (Pearls are a happiness resource and so can be traded as any other).

Redeveloping the Mounted/Chariot (and possibly Siege) lines into a combined line seems feasible. Not too sure about "snake riders" (assuming that was what was implies by "Basilisk" - there are differing mythologies on what they actually looked like). I haven't put a lot of thinking into it so far though as I've been working on the other problem.

I'm not looking to make mounted a "special" line for the lizards, more of a "flavour" line with some options to make them different (but not a "must-have-strong-line" as with Hippus Horsemen or Lanun Ships or Cualli Shadow Priests etc)

 

[woodelf]

I'm thinking no new resource is needed. Lots of lizards, some 4 legged in the civ. I'm actually picturing an iguana as the horse unit and a blowgunner riding him for the mounted archer. No idea how doable that is though.

 

[Broken Hawk]

I just subscribed to this thread and have an idea that might have already been suggested. How about allowing the Scout to Beastmaster line from other civs receive gold for every lizzie they kill? Maybe only Beastmasters for balance. The idea is that lizard skin could be considered a valuable luxury item. Hunt those reptiles to extinction!

I'm kidding. The lizard fans would probably go nuts. Good work Vehem. This modmod is going to be fun.

 

[woodelf]

I think short term these units by sakhr could work. Of course someone has to nifview add a lizard onto the snake if you do. But I see this snake being more representative of a fast unit than anything else at the moment.

 

[Vehem]

Civilopedia and negative happiness changes are both sorted. Normal service will be resumed.

 

[xienwolf]

Why didn't you change the trade-route yield display while you were in there? +.5 & +.5 per 1 from Trade Routes lets the new folks know what to expect a bit better

 

[Vehem]

Why didn't you change the trade-route yield display while you were in there? +.5 & +.5 per 1 from Trade Routes lets the new folks know what to expect a bit better

Wouldn't be strictly accurate. It's possible to increase yield from trade routes without increasing food/hammer yield.

There are 4 values that matter.

1. Trade Route Yield
2. Food%
3. Hammer%
4. Commerce%

By default the Food% and Hammer% are 0% and Commerce% is 100%. This means that 100% of "Trade Route Yield" is generated as commerce.

If you increase Commerce% by 25%, the commerce output for a Trade Route Yield of 1 would be 1.25 Commerce. If using Lost Lands (+50% to Hammers% and Commerce%), that'd give us 0.5 Food, 0.5 Hammers and 1.25 Commerce.

Things like the Harbour and Inn buildings add a percentage to "Trade Route Yield", so the base number is altered, which increases all 3 yields. If anything alters the yields individually, it throws off any fixed ratio (like 0.5 per commerce). What it should say really is "+50% of Trade Route Yield ", which I can actually mod-in using XML alone now that you've made me think about it Thanks

 

[Ekolite]

Oh, by bassalisk riders I meant the big, lumbering gekko type things. Not snakes. Hence, combine with siege line.

 

[Ekolite]

Also, something I just thought of: Does Birthright regained allow you to get a second nmother unit as the archos, could you have two at once?