Fans who pick on deviations from the original source

[warpus]

This is almost completely wrong

Unlike a lot of the PKD movie-adaptions (e.g. Total Recall, Impostor, Screamers), which were indeed based on short stories, Do Androids Dream...? is a full-length novel. And Blade Runner didn't expand it, or change things "a bit". It took most of the character names, and the basic premise of "cop [=freelance bounty hunter] hunts androids who act exactly like people", but threw out nearly everything else.

But yes, it was still a great movie, on its own terms.

Ah, I could have sworn that was a short story. Would it make Blade Runner an adaptation, even though so much was changed? Or is it just "based on"? Where do we draw the line?

 

[Samson]

Ah, I could have sworn that was a short story. Would it make Blade Runner an adaptation, even though so much was changed? Or is it just "based on"? Where do we draw the line?

It is a short book by most the standard of most novels, but it is very long for Philip K Dick. It is kind of about the same thing (what is it that makes us human, or gives our lives value), so I would say more adaptation. Compared to say starship troopers, which may have retained more elements but is about a completely different thing (which is a good thing, the world does not need more fascist propaganda).

 

[H4run]

Hey, I never said you weren't against them. Nothing I posted was aimed at anything but the industry here. Nor did I say "you're probably racist if you didn't like X". So I'm not sure where you're reading that, sorry.

True true, I must have misread you, I think this is because of me misreading your comment before that. Sorry for that Gorb

 

[Samson]

Hilarious example of this:

A Tory MP has linked young men turning to crime to women playing traditionally male roles in TV and film.

Mr Fletcher said: "Everywhere... there seems to be a call from a tiny, but very vocal, minority that every male character or good role model must have a female replacement.
"One only needs to look at the discussion around who will play the next James Bond."
But he said it went further than 007, adding: "In recent years we have seen Doctor Who, Ghostbusters, Luke Skywalker, the Equaliser, all replaced by women, and men are left with the Krays and Tommy Shelby.
"Is there any wonder we are seeing so many young men committing crime?"
​

Driving men to crime with her dastardly two X chromosomes (but do timelords have human chromosomes?)

 

[AmazonQueen]

Some adaptations are better than the original, some are making changes to better suit a different medium, some are ok but pointless, and some are just awful.
They each deserve to be judged on their own merits.

Fanbases, though, are frequently toxic, full of people convinced only their interpretation of something is correct and anybody who thinks different is either stupid or an evil, money grabbing shill. Not all, or even most fans, are like that but they seem to be the ones with the loudest (metaphorical) voices.

 

[Zkribbler]

I could agree, if it isn't always in the same direction. To simplify and remove nuance.

Show me an adaption that adds to the Canon in a beneficial way?

The Taking of Pelham 123
Ocean's 11

That's about it.

I would like someone to remake The Birds. Hitchcock's version is do-do.

 

[Zkribbler]

Audiences change over time and remakes are usually "updated" to fit some new audience profile. In addition, with movies tech changes can make a huge difference. For many old tech doesn't work any more. How many of you don't like B&W films? Remakes are designed to make money and not necessarily to improve upon the past. The new Dune may attract crabby old people who read the books decades ago, but it was filmed with millennials in mind. Old folks can be pretty intransient in their likes and dislikes after decades of always being right...

A group of me and my friends were discussing version on Miracle on 34th Street. All the adults liked the black & white version better. All the kids like the color version better.

 

[tjs282]

history also pretty much chill with the depiction of Mr. Yunioshi by Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffanny's.

Maybe this was true at the time the movie was released, but 60(!) years later (I would hope that) most reasonable people would agree not only that the yellowface is (now) unacceptable, but also that the 'yerrow-pelil' caricature itself is squirmingly outdated and embarrassingly tone-deaf — and it wouldn't be at all improved even if a genuine Asian/ Japanese actor were to play the role (in a hypothetical remake, or a stage-play).

I also use an example of how a supposed to be Singaporean Faye Valentine been cast by a white actor as a disturbance to me, it's even racist if their reasoning is there are not enough good Asian Talent.

Not having a dig at you here, but if that's how you feel about Faye, then I'm curious how do you feel about Jet being played by a Black actor?

From my own perspective (as someone who just finished watching the Cowboy Bebop anime, for the first time ever), I'd had no idea that Faye was supposed to be Singaporean, basically because of my own ignorance: I didn't know that the merlion from her time-capsule videotape was essentially Singapore's trademark — until you made that assertion, and I wondered how you knew, and I looked it up.

If anyone had asked me before that, I would mostly likely have assumed all four of the Bebop's human crew to be caucasian based on their skin-tone (and Faye's lovely green eyes) — which is partly due to my own inherent bias, sure, but also the anime-industry's tendency to use that visual trope for a lot of characters, regardless of their actual in-story origin (e.g. in Black Lagoon, Rokuro "Rock" Okajima is clearly Japanese — but his character-design is also caucasian).

Just to be clear, though, I don't see any problem with the new live-action series "re"-casting (scare-quotes because, you know, fictional and animated characters!) an Asian actor and a Black actor as Spike and Jet, respectively — and I similarly don't have a problem with Faye being played by a Latina actor, either.

 

[H4run]

Not having a dig at you here, but if that's how you feel about Faye, then I'm curious how do you feel about Jet being played by a Black actor?

Jet is black, man.

From my own perspective (as someone who just finished watching the Cowboy Bebop anime, for the first time ever), I'd had no idea that Faye was supposed to be Singaporean, basically because of my own ignorance: I didn't know that the merlion from her time-capsule videotape was essentially Singapore's trademark — until you made that assertion, and I wondered how you knew, and I looked it up.

She is..

Spoiler :

Just to be clear, though, I don't see any problem with the new live-action series "re"-casting (scare-quotes because, you know, fictional and animated characters!) an Asian actor and a Black actor as Spike and Jet, respectively — and I similarly don't have a problem with Faye being played by a Latina actor, either.

I don't know dude as every one of them looks caucasian to you it's hard for me to give a response. But I found your perspective to be unique, but I think everyone who is aware of the base canon of the story, and already established it, can feel disturbed about it, the fact that you established all of the characters in the anime as caucasian white, and you welcome the diversity that comes after the live adaptation, I guess that's make you somewhat more inclusive.

I really can't give further comment without repeating myself and the reason, I guess the point is I understand some people like me might annoy with the unnecessary alteration of the adaptation (the lazy and cannot be justified one), but my annoyance doesn't invalidate someone who doesn't give any importance about it, like there might be people who will be alright even if the whole root of the canon got lifted up and throw to the shredder machine, but this guy cannot dictate other people who got annoyed because he doesn't.

 

[tjs282]

Jet is black, man.

Really? OK, if you say so (as someone who knows), then I believe you.

I don't know dude as every one of them looks caucasian to you it's hard for me to give a response. But I found your perspective to be unique, but I think everyone who is aware of the base canon of the story, and already established it, can feel disturbed about it

Oh I get that, I do — and I'm not intending to belittle your concerns with changes to the characters' canon ethnicities. My point was simply, that I was not aware of the canon: I did no background reading, not even Wikipedia, until seeing your complaint about Faye.

So all I 'knew' about the show's characters was what I saw and heard in the (English-dub) anime itself. And Jet and Spike both 'looked' caucasian to me, even if (as you say) they aren't supposed to be. I mean, it's clear that Spike was part of a Triad-type crime gang, but that alone was not enough (for me) to establish his canon (presumably Asian?) ethnicity. And like Jet and Faye (and Julia and Vicious) he also had (took on?) a fairly cosmopolitan name ('Spiegel' = 'mirror' in German) which tended to obscure that ethnicity even further.

And given that the show is near-futuristic sci-fi which takes place across multiple planetary colonies, I'd also kind of assumed that the society depicted was pretty much a post-national melting-pot, where a person's original ethnicity might/would have less bearing on their opportunities than it does today (or in 1998, when the series first aired).

But again, I have to admit that this assumption was/is also an expression of my optimism/ naivety/ privilege/ prejudice (delete as appropriate!)

 

[H4run]

Really? OK, if you say so (as someone who knows), then I believe you.

It's been years since I watch the anime, to be fair with you I recheck it again, perhaps the ff7 barret somewhat invaded but in my mental mind nevertheless, I always reflected Jet as black, however after a recheck and read there is no any implication of that even it never implied at all. But Faye on the other hand is mentioned, known and established as canon.

 

[HEF]

Y'know...

I'm reading through this thread and as predictable as it is; all the 'discussion' devolved into is: "I don't like this or that because <insert your grievance> "

 

[tjs282]

I'm reading through this thread and as predictable as it is; all the 'discussion' devolved into is: "I don't like this or that because <insert your grievance> "

(Sorry, but) I don't think that's a fair assessment.

But since it's difficult to discuss the OP in a vacuum, I think it's useful to cite specific examples of what changes have "worked" (or not!) for adaptations of works we are familiar with — so long as we also spend some time examining why we think that.

 

[H4run]

Y'know...

I'm reading through this thread and as predictable as it is; all the 'discussion' devolved into is: "I don't like this or that because <insert your grievance> "

Bro, what you did is to switch the word reason with grievance, I mean why not amplify the effect and make all of these discussions to be further beneath you by using the word lamentation or weeping?

bruh

 

[AmazonQueen]

I defy anyone to watch both Vanilla Sky and Open Your Eyes and not conclude that Open Your Eyes was better.

 

[H4run]

I defy anyone to watch both Vanilla Sky and Open Your Eyes and not conclude that Open Your Eyes was better.

I made up my mind, Open Your Eyes is better.

 

[HEF]

...and make all of these discussions to be further beneath you by using the word lamentation or weeping?

bruh

I know... I know...

Your feelings & sensibilities are hurt because the style of prose in storytelling in entertainment has changed but you did not.

Don't let me interrupt this 'discussion'.

Carry on.

 

[H4run]

Your feelings & sensibilities are hurt because the style of prose in storytelling in entertainment has changed but you did not.

Interesting you truly know how to twist words around, you say it in a way as if the change must be equal to progress and try to frame me as a cinema luddite or something, it's mind-blowing knowing that this is coming from someone whose obsession is to play early 20th century games.

But good games though!

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

Depends on whether the adaptation is significantly off brand. If so, it's better to come up with a new universe and let each one be its own animal.

 

[aelf]

I defy anyone to watch both Vanilla Sky and Open Your Eyes and not conclude that Open Your Eyes was better.

Surely you mean Abre los Ojos? Come on, no whitewashing.

Spoiler :

I kid, I kid.