[Feature] Turkic Civilization

[Leoreth]

I think Iranian spawn now should be conditional depending on the Turkic Civ. Historically even Safavids were a Turkic dynasty and Iran was ruled by Turks until 1925~.

Yeah and Sweden is ruled by the French until today.

 

[LikeNothing]

Yeah and Sweden is ruled by the French until today.

And a French traitor at that, who betrayed France and the Revolution. Shame and eternal shame!

 

[Leoreth]

Well Napoleon was so erratic that it was kinda hard not to betray him in the end.

 

[KeeperOT7Keys]

Yeah and Sweden is ruled by the French until today.

Example was just to give an impression but Turks controlled Iran for 1000~years from Ghaznavids to Qajars, it wasn't just a spontaneous marriage bond between the two nationalities. And I'm not sure about where we can draw a line between a separate Iranian Civ and a Turkic one if the current Turkic civ also has an aim to represent some of these dynasties. And I think the most fair approach to this problem would be to allow an Iranian civ only if the Turks are not contolling Iran or if they are not stable, like the case with the Italians. Otherwise I don't think representing (for example) Timur would be fun enough if Iran is going to spawn at 1500 anyway.

 

[Leoreth]

The impression you are trying to give is wrong. It's ridiculous to argue that Safavid Iran was "Turkic" because the Safavids had Turkic ancestry.

 

[citis]

I think Iranian spawn now should be conditional depending on the Turkic Civ.

Oh please not the "leader is ethnicity X, so the state is ethnicity Y" thing. According to this logic Thailand and Switcherland were greek at some point of their history...

 

[KeeperOT7Keys]

Oh please not the "leader is ethnicity X, so the state is ethnicity Y" thing. According to this logic Thailand and Switcherland were greek at some point of their history...

I never said the leader. I'm meaning the whole ruler class, their military/political leaders were Turkish. And my point is about the gameplay of a civ representing the Timurids, I still think Iranians should have a separate civ but their spawn should be conditional at least.

The impression you are trying to give is wrong. It's ridiculous to argue that Safavid Iran was "Turkic" because the Safavids had Turkic ancestry.

But this is also the case with, say Ghaznavids, and aren't we representing them with a Turkic civ instead of an Iranian one? what is the line between a Turkic civ controlling Iran and an Iranian civ? I believe since these two are already blurred we can abuse this to make gameplay more interesting, instead of sticking to an unconditional Iranian spawn.

 

[Ani Taneen]

I'm also coming down as Timur as a Turkic leader and the Timurid Empire as a Turkic respawn or dynamic name. The continuity between the Timurids and Mughals will not really be represented in DoC, because the Mughal civ is a greater umbrella civ for all of Muslim Persianate India. So in conclusion, Timurids and Iran won't really coexist, since the Iranian respawn essentially forces them out of their core (their are historical Timurid successor states in Transoxania where their core could revert and whose dynamic names they could receive). Timurids and "Mughals" can coexist, e.g. in the shape of the Sultanate of Delhi. It probably makes sense to only enable the Mughal dynamic name while the Timurids no longer exist.

Would you be interested in a kazakh empire as a separate civ? With space age UHV? Otherwise the kazakh khanate/Kazakhstan would make an ideal respawn for the timurids.

 

[FinalLegendZero]

While the second UHV now recognizes the trade route, it doesn't check for cities with the Silk Route; while the game keeps track of how many Silk Route cities you have, you get the goal as soon as a trade route from Jerusalem (or other Mediterranean port) and China is established. Save provided.

 

[Leoreth]

Duh, sorry.

 

[FinalLegendZero]

Just checked UHV 3. This one seems to be working.

EDIT: A small issue. After the second culture-in-capital check, you can switch your capital back to the one the first check was passed at and pass the third check there.

 

[Leoreth]

Really? Can you give me a save where this is the case for easy reference?

 

[Leoreth]

New update: fixed second part of Silk Route goal

 

[FinalLegendZero]

Really? Can you give me a save where this is the case for easy reference?

Okay, I'm providing two saves, as it seems I've stumbled into another issue - you can't pass a check until the deadline for the previous check has passed, even if you passed the previous check before the deadline. In both of these saves, the first check was passed in Orduqent, and the second in Isfahan. The capital has been moved back to Orduqent, and three Great Artists have been provided. The only difference is that one is just before 1100 and the other is just after. Culture bomb in the 1090 save and nothing will happen until the end of 1110, at which point you should win the game. Do so in the 1110 save and you should win the game upon ending your turn.

Note that these are the only issues I've found with my testing. You do need to make the second check in a city other than where you made the first, the third can't be made in the city you made the second, and only your current capital's culture matters for the check.

 

[Leoreth]

Can you clarify what kind of state the first save represents? The saved data indicates that the first and second checks have never been achieved (required culture is still 100), even though it is past 900 AD and the goal should already be failed in that case.

 

[FinalLegendZero]

Can you clarify what kind of state the first save represents? The saved data indicates that the first and second checks have never been achieved (required culture is still 100), even though it is past 900 AD and the goal should already be failed in that case.

The victory conditions page doesn't show updates to that goal. I probably should have mentioned that, but I was more worried about the mechanics of the goal than the display. Its state is as I said - the "Developing by 900" check was passed in Orduqent, and the "Refined by 1100" was reached in Isfahan, and the capital is now Orduqent again. Use the Great Artists to push the culture up to Influential, wait until the end of 1110, and win.

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, alright. How do you know that the game correctly registered the first two checks of that goal?

 

[FinalLegendZero]

Oh, alright. How do you know that the game correctly registered the first two checks of that goal?

...That's an excellent point. I had just assumed things were working because it appeared to be behaving correctly. But now that you mention it, it might be possible that the game doesn't currently care about whether the capital moved at all, and I just didn't realize because the deadlines blocked the checks. Or maybe it only cares about the final check.

If you'll excuse me, I've got another test to run - this one to see if it really is necessary to move the capital. I'll report back once I have some results.

 

[FinalLegendZero]

Well, I grabbed a save far back enough for me to have not changed my capital from Orduqent yet, pumped it full of culture, and waited until 1110... and got the win. So either the game doesn't care whether you move your capital, or it only cares about whether you get to Influential between 1110 and 1400.

I'm going to run a game where I stay in my capital exclusively, intentionally fail the first two deadlines, and see if I still pass the goal.

EDIT: Completed the test. I failed goal 3 when the year 900 ended. Looks like the problem is the game doesn't care whether you move your capital. However, another problem arose from the test - goal 1 wasn't flagged as failed after its deadline passed. Going to check if the same can be said for goal 2.

EDIT 2: And it was just goal 1 that isn't flagged. Save provided.

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, I think I know what's up.