Feedback: Maps and Terrain

[Xyth]

If you play on the 128x64 Earth Map and set one of the new world civs (Anasazi, Iroquois, Sioux or Maya - crashes are too annoying for me to find out which) as an AI, the game crashes on the start.

Probably the Anasazi since were only just added in 1.17. I would guess that they may not have a starting location set for that map. If so, then the Kongo (also new) might have the same problem.

Nope - I saw the Kongo.

I'm unable to replicate this on 1.18, so it seems like I fixed it whatever it was.

 

[kiwitt]

Hub is one of my favourite scripts.

 

[Eucalyptus]

I notice that as of HR1.18 it is still forbidden to settle on Ice, but that this doesn't play well. Can a better solution to the Polar Cities issue be incorporated in HR1.19?

Is my previous suggestion implementable? Allow settling on Ice but reduce the base food yield of water tiles within 2 tiles of each Ice tile to 0 (although allow Lighthouses). The philosophy of this approach is that such cities can provide access to rare resources but can never grow very large or become very productive --- their maintenance represents the cost of access to the resource.

I see that there are now other sea terrain types hidden in the Worldbuilder. Is a solution halfway? (I am also happy to see the difference in colour between Coast and Ocean tiles. Thanks for that!)

 

[Nightstar]

Creating a Massive Terra map (with temperate climate and high sea levels) resulted in a landlocked world with *no* oceans (explains why it took forever to generate).

Using the same map options, but with size scaled down to Gigantic, produced a proper map.

 

[Azoth]

I notice that as of HR1.18 it is still forbidden to settle on Ice, but that this doesn't play well. Can a better solution to the Polar Cities issue be incorporated in HR1.19?

I've noticed this problem as well. I'm unable to access a number of arctic resources - Fish, Marble, Fur, Seal - because there are no eligible tiles to settle a city. I suggest a simple solution.

1. It is forbidden to settle on Ice (or Desert) unless adjacent to fresh water or the coast. (Thus, the most inhospitable environments remain off-limits.)
2. The frequency of Ice as a feature on Coast tiles is increased. (Coastal Ice reduces tile yields to zero; more Ice leads to smaller city sizes.)

 

[Xyth]

Hub is one of my favourite scripts.

I can take a look and see how easy it is to convert. Added to todo list.

I notice that as of HR1.18 it is still forbidden to settle on Ice, but that this doesn't play well. Can a better solution to the Polar Cities issue be incorporated in HR1.19?

Is my previous suggestion implementable? Allow settling on Ice but reduce the base food yield of water tiles within 2 tiles of each Ice tile to 0 (although allow Lighthouses). The philosophy of this approach is that such cities can provide access to rare resources but can never grow very large or become very productive --- their maintenance represents the cost of access to the resource.

I see that there are now other sea terrain types hidden in the Worldbuilder. Is a solution halfway? (I am also happy to see the difference in colour between Coast and Ocean tiles. Thanks for that!)

I've noticed this problem as well. I'm unable to access a number of arctic resources - Fish, Marble, Fur, Seal - because there are no eligible tiles to settle a city. I suggest a simple solution.

1. It is forbidden to settle on Ice (or Desert) unless adjacent to fresh water or the coast. (Thus, the most inhospitable environments remain off-limits.)
2. The frequency of Ice as a feature on Coast tiles is increased. (Coastal Ice reduces tile yields to zero; more Ice leads to smaller city sizes.)

This is still on my todo list. Neither suggestion is a simple solution unfortunately as land and sea ice is often handled quite differently from mapscript to mapscript.

Creating a Massive Terra map (with temperate climate and high sea levels) resulted in a landlocked world with *no* oceans (explains why it took forever to generate).

Using the same map options, but with size scaled down to Gigantic, produced a proper map.

I haven't looked at the Terra mapscript much as it's coded a bit different to the others and I find it confusing. I've made a note to investigate.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

I added the new resources to the Huge Earth Map. I replaced some existing resources with new ones and added others in historically accurate locations. Some cities are powerhouses, but these are generally in areas with several civs.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Also, "barren oceans within 2 squares of Ice" could be very punitive for cities in Tundra. Random squares of individual ice can appear in the tundra regions sometimes, as I recall, and even one could pretty well ruin the food potential of a tundra city.

That wouldn't just stop you from building ON ice, it'd stop you from building NEAR ice.

 

[Xyth]

I added the new resources to the Huge Earth Map. I replaced some existing resources with new ones and added others in historically accurate locations. Some cities are powerhouses, but these are generally in areas with several civs.

Thanks for this!

Also, "barren oceans within 2 squares of Ice" could be very punitive for cities in Tundra. Random squares of individual ice can appear in the tundra regions sometimes, as I recall, and even one could pretty well ruin the food potential of a tundra city.

That wouldn't just stop you from building ON ice, it'd stop you from building NEAR ice.

Yeah that would be much too punitive.

 

[kiwitt]

I am considering use this map - http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=19089 - for a WWII scenario ... Starting in 1939.

The level of detail is massive. I may need to make some modifications to the "colonies" to give a more accurate reflection of who owns what in the scenario and also add some of new resources that this mod offers.

 

[tchristensen]

Not sure where to pose my question, but this subject seems appropriate. My question is has anyone else notice the AIs disregard for cutting down Jungle? I find many of my games with AI civilization strangled by swaths of jungle and the AI blissfully doing nothing about it?

I think perhaps it is because the Jungle gains a 50% defense bonus, which to the AI probably looks very favorable. However with each square also adding .25% unhealth to a city, it causes anywhere from a 1 to 3 point penalty for growth and sustainability.

I am curious if anyone has tried reducing the benefit of jungle defense to perhaps 15%? I am unsure why it is set at 50% because any terrain could be considered just as defensive as jungle -- i.e. forests for example?

 

[Xyth]

Not sure where to pose my question, but this subject seems appropriate. My question is has anyone else notice the AIs disregard for cutting down Jungle? I find many of my games with AI civilization strangled by swaths of jungle and the AI blissfully doing nothing about it?

I think perhaps it is because the Jungle gains a 50% defense bonus, which to the AI probably looks very favorable. However with each square also adding .25% unhealth to a city, it causes anywhere from a 1 to 3 point penalty for growth and sustainability.

I am curious if anyone has tried reducing the benefit of jungle defense to perhaps 15%? I am unsure why it is set at 50% because any terrain could be considered just as defensive as jungle -- i.e. forests for example?

Well Jungle is useful terrain in HR. No reduction of food on the tile, a commerce bonus, can be improved by Orchards and Plantations. The health penalty means its not as good as Forest or Savannah but its not undesirable like in BTS. The AI won't be chopping it because its not a hindrance, at least in the first half of a game.

 

[Ferocca]

I have some feedback regarding the terrain:
There is something wrong with the desert/flood plains textures. Especially around flood plains, one can see ugly 'edges' around it when it flows into another type of terrain/tile. Is it just my problem or not, and is someone to fix it?

 

[Xyth]

I have some feedback regarding the terrain:
There is something wrong with the desert/flood plains textures. Especially around flood plains, one can see ugly 'edges' around it when it flows into another type of terrain/tile. Is it just my problem or not, and is someone to fix it?

Is it something you see in the wilderness or is always on or near improved terrain? Could you post a screenshot?

 

[Ferocca]

Is it something you see in the wilderness or is always on or near improved terrain? Could you post a screenshot?

It does not have any conditions; the bug occurs all the time with any improvement in any situation etc.
As you can see, it's not a big annoyance, it's just a very small black edge when flood plains flow into desert tiles.
It is however more of a hindrance when you move your screen (quickly).
Screenshots:

 

[Xyth]

It does not have any conditions; the bug occurs all the time with any improvement in any situation etc.
As you can see, it's not a big annoyance, it's just a very small black edge when flood plains flow into desert tiles.
It is however more of a hindrance when you move your screen (quickly).
Screenshots:

Ah I see what you mean. Looks some sort of masking issue on the edges of the floodplain tiles. Should be fixable, will look into it.

 

[Xyth]

Turns out that glitch is actually present in Civ4's default floodplain graphics, just not as obvious. Because HR's Flood Plains are a bit darker, the glitch gets darkened as well. I can't see any problems in the texture file either, so it's potentially a rendering problem (which I can't do anything about).

The default floodplain texture looks fine with HR's terrain to be honest. I think I'll just remove the custom texture entirely for 1.21.

 

[Ferocca]

I tried out for you how that works, without the custom flood plains, and it's much better. I actually had to regenerate the map to encounter the bug again, but eh, I'm nitpicking here, I really had to look around for it and it's not a bother for me even.

In case you want to totally fix it anyway: it still happens sometimes in a less severe way due to the desert. I suppose the desert texture has also been darkened. I'd say it's better to keep the desert, but if you want to fix this bug, it has to do with both the edges of flood plains and desert (also explains why previously the bug also only happened on flood plains/desert borders).

 

[Nightstar]

I'm seeing something similar on Ocean tiles (see screenshot). Most noticeable where it crosses some one's cultural borders. Oddly, though, the line here seems to run through the *middle* of the tile, not between two different tiles.

 

[Xyth]

I see that from time to time too, quite often where the map wraps from one edge to the other. Pretty sure it's a rendering glitch in BTS' graphics engine.