Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Nikis-Knight, Apr 18, 2007.
Planned, about 5, started only 3, including the Expanse, which hasn't started yet
Tyrs asks a question then!
Have we exhausted this thread?
Woo! Correct answer! My turn!
How many of the Great People are Calabim, and what are their names?
400 volts! CLEAR!
I'm taking the right to reclaim this thread for my own purposes.
Herein lies a story I've written as a possible 'pedia for a RiFE leader, but knowledge of modmod lore isn't needed. The question: what is the prophetess showing Raitlor? I need to make sure it's clear, but not too clear; this is a Balseraph prophetess we're talking about.
Spoiler Prophetess' Story :
Raitlor was in the middle of a crowd, and she had never felt so alone. All about her, the men and women of countless nations swarmed, enjoying the legendary Balseraph revelry. And yet, there was not another Illian. She disguised her accent when she spoke, and never mentioned from whence she came, for her people had established themselves as the pariahs of Erebus. Surely, there was a better way? Suerly, they could swallow at least a little of their pride, accept the end of the Age of Ice, and join the Age of Rebirth?
A strong hand grasped her arm and dragged her suddenly into a tent, wherein sat an old woman. A fire crackled behind her, and there was a table before her. She spoke: "You... are of Illians blood, yes?" Raitlor attempted to flee, but the strong man prevented her. "I wish... I wish to so you something, young woman. You shall thank me for it. I am a prophetess, and I assure you, my prophecies are worth your time. Past. Present. Future."
Seeing she could not escape, Raitlor watched. "You will see. You may not yet understand, but you shall see." The prophetess gestured to a table. Upon it were two cloths; one blue, one gray. Upon the blue cloth was a Somnium card, the Seven of Towers, and upon the card, a blue gem. Upon the gray cloth were two other cards: the Six of Wands, and the Seven of Moons. "You see, yes?" The prophetess said, "For long it was so. But things change." The old woman placed the Six of Suns upon the blue cloth, apart from the Tower. She then showed Raitlor the Seven of Swords, and placed it underneath the Six of Suns. She moved both cards besides the Seven of Towers. "You see?" Although mystified, Raitlor said "yes."
The prophetess then grabbed the Seven of Towers, and tossed it into the fire behind her. She caught the blue gem that her act had flung into the air, and then motioned as if to toss the Six of Suns and Seven of Swords into the air; Raitlor didn't see where they went next, but suspected the prophetess had slipped them up her sleeve in a bit of sleight of hand. The prophetess then flipped the blue cloth; it was green on the other side.
The prophetess revealed the gem. She placed a Six of Towers on the green cloth, and placed the blue gem upon it. "Many things happen. Many things. None important. Not for us, anyways" She than pulled the Six of Swords out from under the Six of Wands, and showed it to Raitlor. "Not important. Yet." She placed the Six of Swords between the two cloths, and showed Raitlor a Three of Moons. She placed the Three of Moons atop the Six of Swords, and moved both to the green cloth. She then placed a Five of Angels on the gray cloth. She moved the Three of Moons and the Six of Swords by the Five of Angels, then moved the Five of Angels to the gray cloth, near the Six of Wands.
The prophetess showed Raitlor a Six of Dragons, and placed it on the cloth. "Important," she said, emphasizing each syllable. She placed the Three of Moons besides the Six of Dragons, and then placed the Three of Moons near the Six of Wands, leaving the Six of Swords by the Six of Dragons. The prophetess then placed the Six of Swords underneath the Six of Dragons. "Now. Important. Very important. Very important." She performed her next moves slowly, emphasizing each motion. She placed the Six of Dragons by the Six of Towers. She moved the Six of Towers, gem still balanced atop it, over the divide between the two cloths. "I don't know," she said, pointing to the gem, and turned the card so that the gem fell between the two cloths.
"Worrying. But what's worse..." the woman placed the Six of Towers on the gray cloth, besides the Five of Angels. She then took both, and placed them underneath the Six of Wands. She pointed to the Six of Wands. "Dangerous." Finally, she pointed to the blue gem. "You must find."
The prophetess then handed Raitlor a large bag of gold. "For your time," she explained, "and your search." The strong man stepped aside, and Raitlor grabbed the gold and ran. She wasn't quite sure what she had seen, but she was absolutely certain it was important.
Also, I'd appreciate corrections if I got some detail wrong. More importantly, if anyone knows for certain where that blue gem (or, rather, what it symbolizes) went, tell me; if we found out, I missed it. Also, the word "six" look's really weird when you see it repeated a lot.
I'm not quite sure what that is about (I only skimmed it and haven't given it that much thought yet), but referencing a certain blue gem makes me think it may have to do with the Gems of Creation.
The Gem of Water was stolen by one of Tuoni's brothers, but after that I don't think it was heard of again. I tend to think that an infinite well of raw elements tends to really throw one's soul out of balance, in a way depending heavily on which element and also on one's ethics to begin with. The Opalus Mortis made Tuoni extremely dour, making him want to end the world. The Gem of Air made his brother extremely reckless, causing him to conquer not out of a desire to rule just just for the adventure and to wantonly abuse his power in stupider and stupider ways until he got himself killed. The Gem of Water however would have pacified its wielder, causing him to become extremely serene and introspective, with no desire to go out into the world and use his new power. as such, he probably drew too little power from it to drive him crazy, and instead of getting himself killed violently like his brothers may have died of old age and passed on the gem as a heirloom perhaps not even telling anyone what it was.
For a moment I thought the cards were supposed t represent the 3 gems, but they are of the wrong spheres. Towers represents earth, wands nature, and moons deception.
Is she instead saying that they once had the gem safe in their castle (towers), but it was revealed (suns) and taken by force (swords) as the fortress was destroyed (throwing towers into the fire) and now needs to be returned? I don't feel like analyzing everything else, but is she saying that Tebryn then had Abashi guarding it in the Black Tower, but it was lost when the tower fell?
I suppose the gem could also be supposed to be the Heartstone, but I'd expect that to be grey instead of blue.
You didn't get it... this worries me. MC: if you like, I can PM you a full explanation of what she's showing, and you can help me make it slightly clearer, or correct some mistake of mine that makes the whole thing collapse.
But first a hint: you might be over-thinking it. The Prophetess isn't using the cards to represent specific elements, but in a much looser sense, designed to be intuitive to Erebusians who aren't aware of the history and symbolism of Somnium, but are still willing to puzzle out non-literal symbols. As a most vital example, the Towers represent anything that represents permanence, which includes but is not limited to the element of Earth and actual towers. The other cards likewise are linked to what an ordinary Erebusian would link them to, not an educated one. There is still a fair amount of symbolism involved, however. For example, the Six of Dragons is not a dragon, and the Seven of Towers isn't a tower.
It's the rise of Auric, aint it? Blue gem = Ice?
My first thought was the Gem of Water too, but I'm going with Thomas here - It's the rise of Mulcarn, who was cast down, and then the rise of Auric. And the woman is saying she doesn't know where it will go from there.
I understand it, but its very abstract. Blue/green cloth is the world, grey is the underworld. 7 of swords in the godslayer, 6 is the nether blade, the blue gem is the dominion of winter, 7 of towers is mulcarn, 6 of towers is auric, etc.
The prophetess wants Raitlor to go and find out what happened to Auric, which probably means going into the underworld.
Indeed; the abstraction was of course intentional.
Of the other cards, the 6 of Suns is Kylorin. The blue side of the cloth represents the world covered by ice (in an ordinary fortunetelling, it would represent water; she made due with what she had) and the green side is the Age of Rebirth. The rest are Scenario events:
Spoiler scenario spoilers :
6 of Dragons: Decius - very much like a dragon, conquering and crushing all who stand before him.
3 of Moons: Rathus - a shadowy individual, but not as important as what he carries.
5 of Angels: Ethne - an important holy woman, but not as powerful as Decius.
6 of Wands: Laroth - a dangerous mage, but not quite a god.
7 of Moons: Arwan - a god wrapped in shadows; he does not deceive, but he is a mystery nonetheless.
Also of note is that the prophetess herself didn't fully understand the underworld incidents, merely that the 6 of Wands represents a threat to the 7 of Moons; she only recognized the latter, but realized that meant the former was very dangerous indeed.
EDIT: In retrospect, I should have had the 6 of Wands be the 6 of Pentacles. Both could be understood to represent arcane power, but the latter would be free of the nature association that distracted MagisterCultuum.
thomas.berubeg was the first to understand the most important part of the riddle, so I leave the floor to him.
EDIT 2: At any rate, I'm working on a ruleset for prophecy-giving; describing Erebusian events as Somnium card prophecies could be a good way to fill a bit of space if I can't think of any questions to ask.
The Mulcarn/Auric/Laroth connection came to mind too, but only as I was finishing up the post and running slightly behind at getting ready for church this morning. I highly suspected the gray cloth was the underworld and briefly entertained the idea of turning Blue to Green being the end of the age of ice, but Blue doesn't say Ice to me, White does.
When thinking to it as the underworld, I kept trying to work in the Wands not as Laroth but Sucellus. I think misread that six as seven, which would make sense as the slain god of nature. I would probably have used Moons for Laroth (to emphasize the connection between him and the Shade who used his tomes whose will he works), and the probably-too-obvious Death card for Arawn. I probably would have used the same suit for Kylorin and Decius (Dragons seems good as it represents Neutrality and both were generally neutral, pragmatic men who clearly had both good and evil aspects to them. I don't see that much of connection between Kylorin and Suns), with Kylorin being 1 higher than Decius.
The Death and Fool cards, I decided, shouldn't be used because they're special cards, and should represent very special things. The blue/green cloths, as I said, was an intentional red herring (EDIT: although, on consideration, I suppose she would have a green/white cloth to represent more ordinary seasonal changes). And, I'll say it again: representing Laroth as the Six of Wands was a mistake, I should have gone for the Six of Pentacles. And your idea to make Kylorin the Six of Dragons (dropping Decius to the Five, and Ethne to the Four of Angels) is also a good one. And, upon still further consideration, I suppose a decent prophetess would
EDIT: OK, how's this look?
Spoiler Somnium Card Prophecies (Balseraph Rules), Rough Draft :
A given prophecy will be internally consistent, but not externally so, beyond following the rules laid out here. For example, the Six of Dragons represented Decius to Raitlor; in a different prophecy, it could represent a skilled business competitor, or an actual dragon. But it will never change meaning during a given prophecy.
The seven cards exclusively represents the gods, or the Godslayer. Which god is represented by which card can change from prophecy to prophecy; Kilmorph and Mulcarn both fit under the Tower. However, the Sword, Pentacle, Sun, Moon, Cup, Tower, and Wand are usually associated with Junil, Agares, Lugus, Esus, Danalin, Kilmorph, and Cernunnos, respectively. While other gods can be represented by these cards, if any of the aforementioned gods are involved, they will be represented by the Seven of their suit, with priority over all other gods and associations.
All other numbers are scaled according to the prophecy's scale; a particularly fierce local businessman who is unimportant outside of the village he controls with an iron fist could be represented by a Six (if the prophecy is about a villager's life) or a Three (if it is about the county, or possibly even the kingdom).
Each suit represents the following, more or less:
Angels: Holiness, literal angels, and to a lesser extent, kindness and mercy. (For instance, the Elohim would usually be represented by the Angels; however, they'd be moved to the Sun or some other suit if the Mercurians were also involved.)
Demons: Unholiness, literal demons (unless Agares is directly involved), and to a lesser extent, cruelty and depravity.
Dragons: Action, ambition, literal dragons, and to a lesser extent, rage. (A dragon will sometimes be associated with the six of its god's suit, however; Abashi would be the Six of Demons if Ceridwen was the Seven, and Eurabatres the Six of Angels if Amathon was the Seven of Angels. This frequently, but not always, leads to the dragon's slayer being represented by the dragon suit.)
Sword: Literal items of power (including swords), and to a lesser extent, military force and order (although military force is more intimately tied with the Dragon; if there are two forces clashing, the more organized will be Swords, the less organized Dragons).
Pentacles: Arcane knowledge and power, and to a lesser extent, mystic symbolism. (Unless Agares himself was involved in her prophecy, the Prophetess would represent herself as a Three of Pentacles; she does not consider herself important enough to warrant any higher number.)
Sun: Revelation, philosophical knowledge, and to a lesser extent, fire and light.
Moon: Passive mystery, active deception, and to a lesser extent, the night, darkness, and death. (If Agares was involved in her prophecy, the prophetess would represent herself as a Three of Moons.)
Cup: Freedom, change, and to a lesser extent, water, ships and literal cups.
Tower: Stoicism, conservatism, and to a lesser extent, earth and literal constructions.
Wands: Nature, balance, and self-knowledge. (And, once more: I should have represented Laroth as a Six of Pentacles; I hadn't thought about the question of exact representations well enough, though.)
The Fool: Whoever is being told the prophecy.
Death: The One, or Armageddon. The prophetess cannot differentiate between the two, as both bring her visions to an abrupt end, but she fear the unknown and assumes both are malevolent forces to be opposed.
I'm guessing things count as an open question now, unless someone can be bothered to find out how many Calabim great people there are. Even then, I'm sure there was a rule about how long you have to wait before replacing an unanswered question.
Who is the oldest elvish leader in Fall from Heaven? That's real-world time, not in-game-chronology, by the way.
however, if you meant Chronology, I would have guessed Varn Gosam. (just to throw a curve ball at ya)
Varn Gossam would definitely not be the oldest elf in the in game chronology. It is almost certain that he was born late in the age of magic, as he was still considered a young child (at least by elven standards) when Laroth took him and the rest of his father's band into the Netherworld wile still living. I doubt he could be much older than 600, while Arendel may be several thousand years old. Arendel Phaedra and Faeryl Viconia have both been ruling queens since well before the signing of the compact. Although it has not been explicitly stated, I personally like to think that they are 2 of the 3 mortal women that we know Cernunnos married.
fair point. I was somewhat guessing blindly on that one, if for no other purpose than to remind people that Varn Gosam is infact elfish.
However, my original guess for oldest "real time" stays as Arendel Phaedra
Hm. Embarrassingly, I've been having some difficulty confirming the correct answer myself. It was whatshername, the wood-elf leader from the original Fall From Heaven mod for vanilla CivIV (ambiguously worded questions ftw.). I was hoping I'd be able to load it up this morning and find out, but it seems to be broken on this computer. Soyeah. Open question I suppose. Unless Arendel Phaedra actually was her name too, in which case Tasunke got it.
Separate names with a comma.