[R&F] First Look: Robert the Bruce | Scotland

[Josephias]

Step 1) ally with weak civ
2) allow another civ to attack your ally and take a city
3) declare Liberation War
4) liberate nothing, collect double production for 10 turns
5) make peace
6) repeat step 3) when treaty expires

And that is why Liberation Casus Belli should be revisited to cover only conquests made in the lasts 30 turns... but nevertheless, probably all Warmongering/Casus Belli/Cede City mechanings should be re-checked.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

1. Assuming you have guessed correctly which civ will become the victim.
2. Assuming that victim civ will be easy to ally with.
3. Assuming the attacking AI will actually be competent enough to capture a city while you have the Alliance/DoF.

I didn't say it would be easy. My point is that it actually synergizes with the UA.

 

[Sagax]

I didn't say it would be easy. My point is that it actually synergizes with the UA.

Oh, the synergy is definitely there. It’s just how likely it is to happen. I’m getting two separate discussions mixed together at this point....

 

[Amrunril]

The civs are all starting to blend into each other. Everyone gets food, culture and production bonuses triggered by minuscule things next to their improvements. Several get a new casus belli bonus. Several get a culture bomb bonus. Nearly everyone gets a unique unit with more strength than the unit it replaces, with combat bonuses in terrain types or border types.

I think this is an issue in some cases, but I don't see Scotland as a major offender. There's no other civ that's tailored to late game science in a way that's at all comparable to Scotland, and there's no other civ that's incentivized to "overkill" on amenities. The golf course, as much as it feels gimmicky and represents a serious eyesore, is the only UI in the game to provide amenities, while the highlander incentivizes a unit class that is ordinarily rarely used. The leader UA is admittedly more repetitive, but it's at least conditional on specific defensive conditions, where Cyrus and Chandragupta are more open ended and offensive.

Scotland wouldn't have been a high priority choice for me (I completely agree that regions other than Europe should be prioritized), and I have mixed feelings about the thematic choices in its depction, but I really can't fault it in terms of mechanical uniqueness.

 

[ltccone]

My first thought is that its kind of weird having a Victorian Britain (England) in the game, and then giving Highland infantry (as in Victorian/Georgian gunpowder Highland infantry regiments) to an indpendent Scotland considering these are troops who fought only for the Union....

They should have gone with a traditional Scottish and not hybridised Union unit. A medieval Gallowglass or Pikeman would have been good for example. Golf course - I like that. They should also have had something to do with lochs and lakes I reckon.

'Highland' infantry is pre-Victorian, from the 1715 and 1745 risings. Prestonpans, Falkirk, Culloden...

 

[Thormodr]

Oh, the synergy is definitely there. It’s just how likely it is to happen. I’m getting two separate discussions mixed together at this point....

Perhaps it will become more likely in the future with changes to the AI, balance changes and new mechanics.

It seems to be the direction in which they are headed, anyway.

 

[Wingednosering]

I think this pretty much confirms that Persia's UA is staying the way it was. A lot of people questioned it when Chandra got a similar ability. Turns out they just love the mechanic and want to spread it around.

 

[Equilin]

Is it possible to liberate a city you captured and sold?
Eg.
1. Capture city from civ A
2. Sold the city to B
3. Ally with A
4. Liberationnnn

Or the capture needs to happen after alliance?

 

[MooFreaky]

I think some are taking this too hard. It seems very in character for Scotland.
Scotland has had so many real world equivalent of Great Scientists so it' n to see that reflected.
Their golf courses are also a good choice. Scotland has more golf courses per capita than anywhere else on the world. And its only in recent decades anyone has even gotten close (Australia and New Zealand are gaining). It's been a pasttime there for nobles and then the middle class for centuries.
Golf courses are as common as dreary, rainy days in Scotland.

War of Liberation is a bit dull but makes sense. Nothing roused the Scots like being invaded. Then they would fight guerilla csmpaigns. Personally I'd have preferred bonus movement in hills when fighting in your own territory.

Scotland the Brave was always going to be the tune. Personally I'd love to have it come on stronger. During the initial greeting rather than having Robbo talk just have a whole band of pipers playing it louder. Then Robbo can be all like "Whats up?" and then switch to the single piper in the background.

Overall he has become the first new civ I will play. Which surrises me cuz I was really Yay Georgia before the first looks.

 

[Morningcalm]

Guys once again - not all the civ abilities are tied to the leader. The science bonus thing is a Scotland ability, not a Robert the Bruce abilitiy. Hojo didn't build electronic factories.

Nor did I say all currently are. But I much prefer Civ designs that complement each other well. Hence my preference for Scythia, Mongolia, and the others I listed in terms of coherence (while Greece is coherently designed, I also think they are a very boring Civ design). I really think the golf courses are ridiculous when we consider Robert was fighting for Scotland's freedom at the time. But I guess I would be more ok with it if it came in the modern era.

That being said, the science bonus kicks in a lot earlier and Robert wasn't exactly concerned with science at the time. Nor Scotland as a whole.

Civ coherence has import when you consider that atmospherics are affected. While Civ does have ridiculous things in it, like the ability to build the Eiffel Tower as Mongolia, there are some aspects (like Barbarossa having U-boats) that just don't mesh well.

While I can understand not everyone's interested in having leader and Civ abilities that sync, I hardly think I ought be faulted for preferring more complementary abilities. The counter examples (look, Barbarossa has U-boats!) raised so far are just examples of Civ designs I don't like. That they exist hardly cuts against my dislike of the odd cocktail of weird bonuses from distant eras that Scotland gets.

Particularly confusing is the dependence of Scotland's science bonuses on an "ecstatic" Scottish nation. Are Great Scientists only spurred to discovery by their mood?

 

[Sagax]

I think this pretty much confirms that Persia's UA is staying the way it was. A lot of people questioned it when Chandra got a similar ability. Turns out they just love the mechanic and want to spread it around.

It’s not the movement speed aspect that needs changing. What needs changing is their “no occupation penalty” element, because city occupation is completely replaced with loyalty in R&F.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

So the Highlander is Immortal then.....or can you only use the unit on Immortal Difficulty?

 

[ferretbacon]

So the Highlander is Immortal then.....or can you only use the unit on Immortal Difficulty?

The ultimate Highlander film reference:

There Can Be Only One!
On Immortal difficulty as Scotland, build and own only one Highlander unit the entire game. Have that unit pillage a Kurgan improvement in Scythian occupied New York.

 

[Cagarustus]

Personally I don’t mind Scotland’s unique civ ability. It fits their historical achievements.

I think many Scottish people will be happy that they are better than England as they currently stand (unless there’s a change there).

 

[CivLuvah]

Aye, it's here! I'm a little late to the party because I watched the video before I went to work and I didn't have any breaks today.

It's a good thing they chose Robert the Bruce and not William Wallace. Like some of you I was wondering why Robert doesn't have red hair on his one.

The UA seems appropriate, since the civ is trying to represent Scotland's history as a whole, although that doesn't seem to align with the fact that England seems to be focused on the 19th century more than English history as a whole.

When I first heard that the UI is the golf course I just laughed. Because I was reminded of a joke on the Scotland sneak peek thread that I read before the video came out thst was about exactly that. It's still weirdly funny to have it as a UI.

And the bagpipes! Oh the bagpipes! Reminds me of the time I visited Edinburgh and fell in love with it's weirdness. Can't wait to hear the Atomic Theme.

Let's toast to that! (Even though I don't drink and I never will)

 

[PhilBowles]

Aye, it's here! I'm a little late to the party because I watched the video before I went to work and I didn't have any breaks today.

It's a good thing they chose Robert the Bruce and not William Wallace. Like some of you I was wondering why Robert doesn't have red hair on his one.

The UA seems appropriate, since the civ is trying to represent Scotland's history as a whole, although that doesn't seem to align with the fact that England seems to be focused on the 19th century more than English history as a whole.

When I first heard that the UI is the golf course I just laughed. Because I was reminded of a joke on the Scotland sneak peek thread that I read before the video came out thst was about exactly that. It's still weirdly funny to have it as a UI.

And the bagpipes! Oh the bagpipes! Reminds me of the time I visited Edinburgh and fell in love with it's weirdness. Can't wait to hear the Atomic Theme.

Let's toast to that! (Even though I don't drink and I never will)

The game's already crossed the lines people seem to be complaining about with Scotland. We have a football stadium as an Entertainment Complex building and, as the series has progressively cheapened the idea of what constitutes a World Wonder, we even have one as a Wonder. Golf courses are at least as legitimate. And it's hard to credit that people are questioning Scotland's credentials as a science civ in a game that gives Sumeria (a cultural civ if ever there was one, as it's notable for urbanisation and the evolution of early forms of government, both of which qualify as civics in Civ VI) extra science from ziggurats.

All that said, I still find it too jarring that this interpretation of Scotland is led by Robert the Bruce. Say what you will about the anachronisms inherent in other civs' leader choices, none immediately come to mind whose notable achievements are so antithetical to the type of civ they want to portray. It's akin to having the India Gandhi leads having a civ ability and uniques entirely focused around war.

 

[Stomper66]

On Immortal difficulty as Scotland, build and own only one Highlander unit the entire game. Have that unit pillage a Kurgan improvement in Scythian occupied New York.

In fact can we have the Kurgan as Scythias alternate leader? Or can there be only one?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

The ultimate Highlander film reference:

There Can Be Only One!
On Immortal difficulty as Scotland, build and own only one Highlander unit the entire game. Have that unit pillage a Kurgan improvement in Scythian occupied New York.

Oh, that would be *awesome*!!!! .

 

[Morningcalm]

The game's already crossed the lines people seem to be complaining about with Scotland. We have a football stadium as an Entertainment Complex building and, as the series has progressively cheapened the idea of what constitutes a World Wonder, we even have one as a Wonder. Golf courses are at least as legitimate. And it's hard to credit that people are questioning Scotland's credentials as a science civ in a game that gives Sumeria (a cultural civ if ever there was one, as it's notable for urbanisation and the evolution of early forms of government, both of which qualify as civics in Civ VI) extra science from ziggurats.

All that said, I still find it too jarring that this interpretation of Scotland is led by Robert the Bruce. Say what you will about the anachronisms inherent in other civs' leader choices, none immediately come to mind whose notable achievements are so antithetical to the type of civ they want to portray. It's akin to having the India Gandhi leads having a civ ability and uniques entirely focused around war.

I agree. A later era Scottish leader would have fit the Scottish Civ abilities far better. For Robert the Bruce they should have added more military or loyalty bonuses IMO.

I do still find golf courses for Scotland ridiculously funny though. It undermines Robert the Bruce's dignity in the same way that someone pulling down Barbarossa's armored pants during your first meeting with him might well undermine his gruff imperious presence.

 

[oski90]

The ultimate Highlander film reference:

There Can Be Only One!
On Immortal difficulty as Scotland, build and own only one Highlander unit the entire game. Have that unit pillage a Kurgan improvement in Scythian occupied New York.

That's the reference I was looking for!!!!