Foreign Policy: UniversCiv

[2metraninja]

After the in-game chat I had with the Uciv turnplayer (will sew and post it later) and the letter we sent them, here is their answer:

Lala Civilization

4:39 PM (18 hours ago)

to me
Hello,

Just to tell you we have received your message and we are happy about its content.

There is no problem for the spying thieves

We are still thinking about the details of what we can deal together and we will come back to you very soon.

For CP, we hope they will lost their city against WPC. In this case, we won't have direct borders with them anymore. But they planned something against us and they are not our friends of course ! At this moment, we just want to know we are trully on your side ! But we don't know how to act and if we need to act in a near future. Maybe let us some turns, just time to finish war with WPC before to think about that ? or do you have a specific proposition ?

Friendly,

Zioun for UCIV

Quite favourable I can say. But yet, without much commitment. I think we must work on this part.

 

[2metraninja]

Lala Civilization

Dec 12 (4 days ago)

to me
Hello Guys,

Thx to help us for our golden age. We really need it now. When do you think we can make the exchange ? our scientist is close to your borders and can be in your land when you want.

About a full cooperation, i'm personnaly really in favour of it, and i think my team would be too. But i wonder about the way to do it ? because if we both spying each other it would be difficult to steal tech, right ? Would it be better that one of us tech and the other give money ?

Like we say, we will try to make the math.

For aztecs, they are incredibly aggressive towards us. We will break the nap soon if my team agree. So we can support you if there is a war.

Friendly,

Zioun for UCIV

This one I forgot to post.

 

[2metraninja]

And this we got just right now.

500 gold per turn is quite a lot I think.

Lala Civilization

Dec 14 (2 days ago)

to me
Hello Dear Allies,

Thx for the merchant, we gave you the scientist this turn. We just start our golden age and change our civics.

To precise the mathematics on our subject : in golden age and with 100% science, we make around 2200 science (and it will probably grow fast in the next 5 turns), and we lose 500 gold each turn. The GA will last 8 turns.

So we propose you this :

- you gave us around 500 gold (600 would be great) each turn.,

- you stole us all the things u want

- we stop completely spying on you (already done)

- you can convert our cities with your religion (it reduces the cost of stealing)

- and of course we coordonate on tech path.


Its just an idea we can discuss of course. I don't know if your calculs are differents. The issue is that we don't have spying buildings yet..

You can ask us the tech that you want us to discover. We tech now biology (need 3 turns) because we really need it after civplayers destroyed all our improvements in former WPC land. We will replace cottages by farms in some case.

After this, we can follow the path you want.

What do you think about that deal ?


One other thing, we don't see the graphs of CP anymore : they probably spy us a lot or they have many buildings...


We wait for your answer

Friendly,

Zioun for UCIV

 

[SevenSpirits]

500 is definitely the largest amount of gpt I've seen anyone ask for for free. Loooool.

 

[classical_hero]

But in exchange we can "trade" wit them for techs they get during their GA, so it is not really fre. The closest thing to tech trading.

 

[2metraninja]

We got new mail from Uciv:

Lala Civilization

Mar 25

to me
Hello dear Allies,

We hope your war is going well. We saw that there was a great battle in which you had some casualties...we send you some units to protect your conquests ! maybe we could send more of you want but it seems there is no direct threat on Civfr land...

We will have artillery next turn, that should help ! it would be good to search tanks after (so combustion too). Does it seems good to you ?

Unfortunetaly we got a scientist this turn...we hoped to get an engineer or a merchant and we had some probabilities but not enough. It would be a very very very nice thing if you agree to exchange it against an engineer or a merchant (but engineer would be the best). We could arrange it like you want...

Last point is that our nap will end at turn 240 i think...so it left around 20 turns, but i think we should think about to make it last longer...now we have a strong alliance and it could bring us very far together. What do you think about that ?

Thx for your answer and good luck !

Friendly,

Zioun for UCIV

Thing is we gave way more much money that the 10-15% of each tech beaker's cost, but the fastest way to actually we get the techs which will give us a way to secure our west front was this. I decided to just give those money and steal the techs from Uciv (still better trade-off then if we were to tech those techs ourselves), than to keep losing cities in the West to the superior CP army.

What you guys think about extending NAP with them? We have NAP ending with Apolyton at the exact same t240.

We have to decide the big picture on diplomacy. We are about to form what could well be the ending game distribution of alliances.

Uciv are good allies, but they are also arguably the weaker team in the game beside CivFR. They do have potential though. MZ was talking to me that Ot4e tries to get him to attack Uciv together, to which I said that we will never let Ot4e take on Uciv. But our bond with Uciv is also acting as detergent to MZ for making firm plans with us against Ot4e, because he fears that once Ot4e is out of the big game it will be CFC + Usiv versus him, which variant he wants to avoid understandably. And CFC+Uciv versus CP + Poly is not a bright possibility too. For now Poly is tied in war with CivFR, in which we are not participating actively more or less, but this can very well change in terms CivFR giving NAP to Poly, while keeping the war with us if CP allies Poly. Then we are in even worse situation of CP + Poly + CivFR versus CFC + Uciv. This have small chance of happening, because MZ will know once we are gone, it is him versus CP + CivFR, but Ot4e is scrupulousless enough to use CivFR to bring us down, while promising MZ that once they are the 3 of them, he will attack CivFR too and then CP and Poly will have to decide the game between them 2.

Ideally, we want CFC + Poly + Uciv versus CP + CivFR situation. Any ideas how we achieve it? Or some other ideas about configuration which might be equally good for us or even better plus idea how to achieve them?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Can we spend the next 20 turns ignoring CivFr and focusing on crippling CP?

If we can hobble CP, then MZ would never join them.

 

[2metraninja]

It is more like the opposite - CP is crippling us with their superior technology and non-stop whips

Last turn we lost Delhi - very nice coastal city on our side of Thunder Bay which was going to be a navy production powerhouse. We are defenseless in the seas for few more turns, as Ot4e have destroyers and transports, while we have only galleons still.

On land the situation is similar - Ot4e have tons of artillery and infantry to our mostly rifles and canons. We do have Assembly Line and Artillery, just not much of our units are modern ones. From this turn, he started to churn out tanks

MZ is going to keep his word about us splitting the French I think, but he asked that we provide some 15 tanks in 10 turns in addition to 30 other units (most of which we do have ready on the French front). This can be done I think, but much depends on the fury with which Ot4e will attack our positions. If he goes on exchange, then we are in deep trouble. Not to mention that French got a Great Artist last turn and might well trade it to Ot4e, in which nightmareous scenario our front will just collapse, resulting in us losing almost all of our army.

So not much good news I have to report lately. We are first in production and just equal to Ot4e in power, but our food is already third and our GNP is bad. Our cooperation with Uciv in stealing is great for us though, but it wont be eternal I guess. So far, thats it.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Ah, I see... But...

If as you say our production is higher than CP, and he is killing us with "endless whips,"... Then why can we not switch his Civics to something where he can't draft or whip, and just keep switching him every time he tries to switch back?

1. We are SPI, so we can switch to any civic we want with no anarchy.

2. If he tries to switch back he will be in anarchy... No builds, no whips... So he will have to choose between constant anarchy or no more whips.

3. If he has kept any city that he captured from us it will be super-cheap to run CSM there.

Can this help us out of our dire situation?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Here's how I think it will work.

Turn 1 - we draft whip etc, then switch out of drafting and whipping civics, then switch CP to our civics so they can't whip/draft

Turn 2-6 - no one can whip or change civics

Turn 7- CP changes back their civics and goes into anarchy, we run CSM on them and change them back to non whipping civics, then we switch to Slavery/ Nationalism anarchy-free and start whipping

Turn 8-12 no one can change civics, CP can't draft or whip, but WE CAN.

Turn 13 - goto turn 1

 

[2metraninja]

Good call about switching civics, that would had been great, but alas, we made agreement with CP to not use CSM on them in exchange of them promising to not vote for religious victory. We were so afraid CivFR seeing us and Poly ripping them apart with combined forces will vote Cp religious winner just to spite us. Way later after we had the agreement at place Ot4e said something about he ever felt this a cheesy win and would hesitate to use it, but we did not knew at the time. I see this as example how no one can scare yourself more than you can scare yourself if you let yourself the seed of fear plant and grow inside of you. We were so afraid of hypothetical religious win scenario, that we gave up our strongest weapon in regard to CP.