Freedom of speech means freedom from repercussions?

[AppleDumplingHead]

That's not what "garden variety (x)" means. It means a standard variety of (x) type of thing, not that they "grow in every garden".

And I'm done. I'm sorry, you're too much.

 

[Perfection]

Pretty sure MAGA hats secretly contain materials designed to focus the SVR's mind-control signals beamed down from GLONASS sats.

So it's pretty rational to fear people wearing them.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That's not what "garden variety (x)" means. It means a standard variety of (x) type of thing, not that they "grow in every garden".

And I'm done. I'm sorry, you're too much.

The point is that there aren't enough sociopaths or psychotic abusers for there to be a "standard type." The implication in context when you used the expression was that behavior towards strangers should be predicated on the possibility they are a sociopath or psychotic abuser, which is absurd, but certainly points to the bottom of your position.

By the way, repetition of the reference to putting me on ignore belies the first such claim. Did you really mean it this time?

 

[Perfection]

The point is that there aren't enough sociopaths or psychotic abusers for there to be a "standard type."

maybe not but we're getting closer every day!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

maybe not but we're getting closer every day!

Probably true, but I suspect they are still a dwindling population segment so planning on encountering them is still absurd.

 

[sophie]

What about fear of people in red hats that read "Make America Great Again"?

Except that's not at all comparable to racial, gender, or sexual prejudice.

Someone wearing a MAGA hat is making a political statement, and in so doing are presenting themselves as representing a certain political ideology which I find distasteful. It's not really stereotyping because the hat and Donald Trump represent a very explicit set of values, the support for which the wearer of the hat is broadcasting to the world. You aren't making unfair assumptions because the wearer of the hat is actively inviting you to make those assumptions. This is very different from more standard forms of bigotry. Gender, skin color, mental or physical handicap, these do not represent ideologies. Nor really do they even represent identities necessarily. They are unchangeable qualities of the self, and moreover make no explicit statement about who that person is. The color of a persons skin makes no statement about their political ideology, their interests or their identity. It's not something they asked for and not something they can remove, unlike a hat. This is the problem with stereotyping. It comes from treating someone's skin color as though it were a MAGA hat and projecting a number of unwarranted assumptions onto a person. It predefines the range of possible identities and ideologies open to a person because of their race, and that is racism.

To give an illustrative example:

a) If I see a black guy walking down the street and I ask him if he likes 2Pac, that's racist.
b) If I see a guy walking down the street who's wearing a 2Pac shirt and I ask him if he likes 2Pac, that's common sense.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

a) If I see a black guy walking down the street and I ask him if he likes 2Pac, that's racist.
b) If I see a guy walking down the street who's wearing a 2Pac shirt and I ask him if he likes 2Pac, that's common sense.

I have no idea who or what "2Pac" is, but if someone is wearing a shirt depicting it, it would likely be redundant to ask if he likes it (do people often wear shirts depicting something/someone they don't like?).

It would be nice if Trump got permanent laryngitis and lost access to the internet. Every stupid and obnoxious thing he says is making its way north and infesting the Canadian right-wing parties. They were bad enough before; now they're many times more obnoxious.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That was, predictably, the worst thing about electing Trump. It is the ultimate encouragement to the odious among us, as well as the odiousness within us.

 

[sophie]

I have no idea who or what "2Pac" is, but if someone is wearing a shirt depicting it, it would likely be redundant to ask if he likes it (do people often wear shirts depicting something/someone they don't like?).

Yes, but that's precisely the point. Because asking if you like 2Pac on the basis of being black is, superficially, the same thing. Something about someone's appearance leads you to make assumptions about their tastes/interests/culture/ideology/politics/whatever. The problem is that wearing a shirt is an explicit political statement. A choice you make and broadcast to the world (i.e. why your response is "no duh he likes that thing, he's wearing a shirt of it!"). There is agency on the part of the wearer. They have the ability to choose and decide what kind of assumptions the world is going to make about their ideology. Having a particular skin color is not a political statement. The person with the skin color has no control over that. When someone stereotypes, that is, when someone makes an assumption about that person on the basis of their skin color, they are perpetuating an ideology which divides people, as well as their interests, culture, and politics into categories based on race. i.e. they are engaging in racism.

And to answer your question: people do wear shirts depicting something they don't like. Those people are called hipsters:

For example:

 

[Gori the Grey]

I never get asked whether I like 2Pac or not, and I suspect it's because I'm white.

The thing is, I do like 2Pac! I've just been waiting for someone to ask me whether or not I do. So that I could say, "yes"!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I never get asked whether I like 2Pac or not, and I suspect it's because I'm white.

The thing is, I do like 2Pac! I've just been waiting for someone to ask me whether or not I do. So that I could say, "yes"!

Get a tee shirt. Or maybe a hat.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Then I think people will say, "You like 2Pac?" And that's a different question.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Then I think people will say, "You like 2Pac?" And that's a different question.

It's hard to say for sure given the limitations of the written word...but I think that actually doesn't represent a question, even though the punctuation suggests it.

 

[JollyRoger]

Someone wearing a MAGA hat probably likes at least 2 PACs.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

And to answer your question: people do wear shirts depicting something they don't like. Those people are called hipsters:

For example:

That's not quite what I meant. Wearing a shirt that says "Just say no to drugs" is self-explanatory, assuming the people who see the shirt can read English.

If I were to see someone wearing a shirt depicting a marijuana leaf (an example that comes to mind because one of Justin Trudeau's campaign promises was to legalize marijuana in Canada), I would assume the person liked it. Of course if there was a slash across the image or a "Say no to drugs/marijuana/pot" message spelled out on the shirt, it would indicate that the wearer does not like marijuana.

 

[sophie]

Or they could be wearing the shirt ironically and think that marijuana actually should not be legalized

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Or they could be wearing the shirt ironically and think that marijuana actually should not be legalized

I'm one of the people who think it shouldn't be legalized except for medical purposes. I'm not about to walk around wearing a shirt with a marijuana leaf on it to express irony.

 

[Commodore]

Should there be laws to guarantee that companies can't fire employees for the things they say?

No, there should not. At least not in the US. Our Constitution only guarantees the freedom from government reprisals for what you say. Private organizations however, have much greater latitude when it comes to what Constitutional rights of their employees they have to respect. So if your employer wants to fire you because they don't like your opinions, they are perfectly free to do so, as long as that employer is not the government or a company contracted to work directly for the government.

 

[sophie]

I'm one of the people who think it shouldn't be legalized except for medical purposes. I'm not about to walk around wearing a shirt with a marijuana leaf on it to express irony.

...but you aren't wearing the shirt

 

[Valka D'Ur]

...but you aren't wearing the shirt

Since we're speaking hypothetically, what difference does that make? Any images or writing on my shirts have either been to do with the Guest of Honor at whatever science fiction convention I was currently attending, or related; one of my favorites was an image of the Milky Way Galaxy, with an arrow pointing to one region of it. The caption read "You Are Here."