Freedom of speech means freedom from repercussions?

[Valka D'Ur]

I always find the Canadian independence thing is good for a chuckle.

Care to explain that?

Why the hell should I have paid any respect to some actor/president who used an astrologer to help him make his decisions, openly joked about nuking other countries, thought that a "limited nuclear war over Europe" was a good idea, and the myriad other ridiculous things he said and did?

I don't excuse certain Canadians' actions during this time. I still feel nauseated by video footage of the "Shamrock Summit" where Brian Mulroney and Ronald Reagan sang together on stage.

As I said, some of this "pop culture" stuff is really a generational thing, along with the facts that I don't watch much TV, haven't seen many movies from the last 15 years (grudgingly watched the nuTrek crap to shut up the people on TrekBBS who kept trolling me), have basically ignored Facebook after a former friend suddenly started posting some rather nasty stuff including links to people who want the premier of my province assassinated, and nuked my own Twitter account after it was hacked. I'm not willing to go through that hassle again.

Yes, we're inundated with American media and TV/movie "culture" and I pay little serious attention to most of it. Make a Seinfeld or Futurama or Hobbit/Lord of the Rings reference and the chances are that I won't have the faintest idea what you're talking about.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

So do forgive me if I didn't immediately understand the profound message of that ridiculous "ironic t-shirt."

 

[sophie]

Because unlike, e.g. the US, Indonesia, France, or Belgium, Canada's independence didn't come as a result of a violent struggle. So to an American, the concept of a "Canadian Independence Day" seems rather quaint.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Because unlike, e.g. the US, Indonesia, France, or Belgium, Canada's independence didn't come as a result of a violent struggle. So to an American, the concept of a "Canadian Independence Day" seems rather quaint.

1. What does this have to do with what we were arguing about previously? (not that I mind leaving it behind)

2. What makes you think we think of it as a "Canadian Independence Day?" I assume you mean July 1, correct? We call it "Canada Day." This year will be the 150th anniversary of Confederation. There's nothing wrong with celebrating the anniversary of a peaceful formation of a new country.

3. Why can something or someone only become independent through violent struggle? When you left your parents' home (I'm assuming you have), did you all line up on opposite sides of the kitchen table and point rifles at each other, or did they say, "'Bye, Owen, don't forget to write/call/email (whatever may be applicable)"?

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

Why the hell should I have paid any respect to some actor/president who used an astrologer to help him make his decisions, openly joked about nuking other countries, thought that a "limited nuclear war over Europe" was a good idea, and the myriad other ridiculous things he said and did?

/rage

 

[shadowplay]

I always find the Canadian independence thing is good for a chuckle.

We're uproariously hilarious in contrast to your culture of school shootings, mall shootings, and of course, president shootings.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

/rage

So? Even Stephen Harper - someone whom many people despise, with good reason - managed to utter an intelligent sentence now and then. It doesn't excuse the wrong things they said.

We're uproariously hilarious in contrast to your culture of school shootings, mall shootings, and of course, president shootings.

There's an American guy on TrekBBS who swears up, down, and every other imaginable direction, that Corner Gas is his absolute favorite show, and the best TV program ever made.

Apparently Red Green was in my city awhile back and I didn't know. It would have been fun to see a live performance.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

Good thing Canada has come so far. You guys can end the next cold war while we take in your draft dodgers and wingnuts.

Should be really interesting on tricycles pulling radio flyer wagons.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Good thing Canada has come so far. You guys can end the next cold war while we take in your draft dodgers and wingnuts.

Should be really interesting on tricycles pulling radio flyer wagons.

Since we don't have the draft, there are no draft dodgers. You're welcome to the wingnuts, though. Nowadays they call themselves the Conservative Party of Canada, and believe it or not, these are the ones that their original party's founder considered electable. You should have seen the white supremacists, Christian fundamentalists, and western separatists he kicked out for being unelectable.

As for your last sentence, we both know what that's called.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

As for your last sentence, we both know what that's called.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mem...nqXRAhXBxYMKHXK6D3IQ_AUICCgB&biw=1363&bih=733

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Care to explain that?

Sure.

Canada, without economic ties to the US, would be a frozen wasteland. The Canadian military couldn't defend the country against an aggressive Greenland without US support. There is basically no aspect of Canada that is not intertwined with the US...as would only be expected of a relatively small country with only one international border and that with a country ten times their size. That's why 90% plus of the population lives within fifty miles of the US. So the whole "US politics are irrelevant to mighty Canada" bit is something I always get a chuckle out of.

Clear now?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

childish drivel

Go fly a kite.

It's true that we're not equipped with the latest gadgets, and there's an old joke that West Edmonton Mall in my province has more submarines than the navy does.

But your mockery is just really childish and obnoxious.

Sure.

Canada, without economic ties to the US, would be a frozen wasteland.

It would? I had no idea the U.S. dollar controls our weather and climate. However did the indigenous people here cope before your ancestors came and invaded the continent? (my ancestors have only been here for the last century or so, give or take a few years depending on which grandparent I'm talking about)

The Canadian military couldn't defend the country against an aggressive Greenland without US support.

So you've got an army stationed on Baffin Island? Wow, that's something I did not know. For some reason the newscasts forgot to mention that.

There is basically no aspect of Canada that is not intertwined with the US...as would only be expected of a relatively small country with only one international border and that with a country ten times their size. That's why 90% plus of the population lives within fifty miles of the US. So the whole "US politics are irrelevant to mighty Canada" bit is something I always get a chuckle out of.

Better brush up on your geography with this "only one border" stuff. Of course it doesn't really matter much that there are a couple of small islands off the coast of Newfoundland that are controlled by France, and there is the squabble with Denmark over that little island between us and Greenland.

Our major borders - plural - are only with the U.S.

I never said your politics is irrelevant. They're highly relevant, especially as your country's Tea Party attitudes and dirty tricks started infesting our political process after the Reformacons came to power. Now we've got a contender for leader of the federal Conservatives who is just giddy about Donald Trump and keeps babbling about his "message" that "needs to be delivered to all Canadians."

Disgusting. Even most of her own party finds her attitude despicable, and considering what the rest of them are, that's saying something. We don't need to import American-style bigotry here; there's enough of it that's already in need of dumping in the trash.

But I was in high school and college when Reagan was in office. Yes, he did occasionally say something sensible, but the negatives far outweighed the positives, in my view.

You're free to worship any president you want. We don't tend to worship our politicians. I get patriotic on exactly two days out of the year: July 1 and November 11, and sometimes I skip July 1 if I'm not in the mood to celebrate. But I always observe Remembrance Day.

I don't happen to live anywhere near the border, and neither do a lot of other people. If I traveled 50 miles south, I wouldn't even make it as far as Calgary.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

Go fly a kite.

It's true that we're not equipped with the latest gadgets, and there's an old joke that West Edmonton Mall in my province has more submarines than the navy does.

But your mockery is just really childish and obnoxious.

.

Gee, that's kinda how I felt about your under-educated portrayal of Reagan's presidency.

The man's tough stance and policy were instrumental in ending the cold war. Most of the world benefited from it. You benefited from it. Although "Reaganomics" gets a bad wrap, it's arguable it contributed to stability after rampant inflation from the 70s, and Canada benefited from that, as the primary exporter of oil to the US.

Canada became it's own constitutional government in 1982 and it had an awfully good start in trade relations under the Reagan administration with lowered controls. You need some perspective before you jump the gun.

 

[aelf]

That's not what "safe space" means. You are reaching.

Not at all.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

Not at all.

Aelf, please. A safe space is manifested as this..

A person says something about which they feel they are marginalized, and many people group together in support to bring the person up and make them feel part of a community. So far, so good, right? Then a safe space goes on further to censor distracting or otherwise hurtful responses in their media and practice. Not too bad at this point, I can still run with it. Then a safe space proceeds to be run by people who willfully omit any sensible critical comment, any genuine argument to the contrary, because it does not fit the agenda and thusly should not be shared. That is what a modern safe space is, a feel-good anti-depressant at the expense of legitimate critique and reality. When this happens, for example, on college campuses, it becomes actually contrary to legitimate scholastic discussion, it censors any side but its own so that average participants, in the end, are left far more unwise and under-informed than when they entered.

It's not a freaking "expansive space to air their views safely". That is what the censors, controllers, manipulators of the safe space want you to believe. It is modern societal American agitprop.

 

[aelf]

Aelf, please. A safe space is manifested as this..

A person says something about which they feel they are marginalized, and many people group together in support to bring the person up and make them feel part of a community. So far, so good, right? Then a safe space goes on further to censor distracting or otherwise hurtful responses in their media and practice. Not too bad at this point, I can still run with it. Then a safe space proceeds to be run by people who willfully omit any sensible critical comment, any genuine argument to the contrary, because it does not fit the agenda and thusly should not be shared. That is what a modern safe space is, a feel-good anti-depressant at the expense of legitimate critique and reality. When this happens, for example, on college campuses, it becomes actually contrary to legitimate scholastic discussion, it censors any side but its own so that average participants, in the end, are left far more unwise and under-informed than when they entered.

It's not a freaking "expansive space to air their views safely". That is what the censors, controllers, manipulators of the safe space want you to believe. It is modern societal American agitprop.

Yup, that's essentially same thing I'm talking about. These conservatives want all of society to be their safe space. That's what "expansive space to air their views safely" refers to.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

Yup, that's essentially same thing I'm talking about. These conservatives want all of society to be their safe space. That's what "expansive space to air their views safely" refers to.

Who is being censored? What logical critique is being stifled?

As far as I'm concerned, transgender children on the cover of National Geographic pretty much exemplifies a perfect stance what you're implying is wholly untrue. The fact schools are obligated to "serve croissants because a handful of young people think they're Napoleon" establishes who is in control of public opinion. The very fact that every darn media outlet jumps when "black lives matter" says jump betrays your missive. You and Emma Watson need to sit down and have a real conversation who has the public ear.

Gosh, it's like people are treated unfairly when they don't get every darn thing they want. It's entitlement, a bunch of spared rods and spoiled children.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You're free to worship any president you want.

Thanks. I don't recall the part where I acknowledged you as qualified to grant me permissions. But thanks.

Meanwhile, I also don't recall any reference to "worshiping." What I found laughable, and always do, was the "I'm Canadian and see no need to pay attention to the US." After all, most of Canadian international trade flows through "a couple small islands off Newfoundland," right?



Just for the record, while I did serve under him as commander in chief with respect I think my economic views disqualify me completely from any Reagan worshiping cults.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Gee, that's kinda how I felt about your under-educated portrayal of Reagan's presidency.

Not equivalent. I did not mock your military. And that was about the politest thing I could post under the circumstances.

As I said, there is one day of the year in which I am guaranteed to express patriotism (we don't go in for this daily flag worshiping nonsense Americans do), and that is Remembrance Day.

The man's tough stance and policy were instrumental in ending the cold war. Most of the world benefited from it. You benefited from it. Although "Reaganomics" gets a bad wrap, it's arguable it contributed to stability after rampant inflation from the 70s, and Canada benefited from that, as the primary exporter of oil to the US.

The Reformacons here are still trying to push "trickle down" in spite of knowing that it didn't work 30 years ago.

And was his tough stance or his advisors' tough stance? Are you saying he did not consult astrologers? Are you suggesting that he was not already afflicted with Alzheimers toward the end of his term? (no, I'm not mocking that disease; my grandmother died of it). The idea that anyone in that position could not be of sound mind is not reassuring, and he was so keen on using those nukes. There's a reason his nickname here was "Ronnie Ray-gun."

Canada became it's own constitutional government in 1982 and it had an awfully good start in trade relations under the Reagan administration with lowered controls. You need some perspective before you jump the gun.

Our constitution was repatriated so we can do any amendments ourselves, without bothering Her Majesty. We also gained the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Don't suggest that we weren't even a country prior to that.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

And was his tough stance or his advisors' tough stance?

Who put those advisors there.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Thanks. I don't recall the part where I acknowledged you as qualified to grant me permissions. But thanks.

Meanwhile, I also don't recall any reference to "worshiping." What I found laughable, and always do, was the "I'm Canadian and see no need to pay attention to the US." After all, most of Canadian international trade flows through "a couple small islands off Newfoundland," right?

It looks like worshiping to me, and I know I'm not the only Canadian who has this impression.

Your snide attitude about the rest of it is just a snide attitude and not one I choose to address any further.

Who put those advisors there.

So it was the Ronald and Nancy and the astrologers who ran everything and he did not have anyone else advising him?

That would make him unique among all modern political leaders.

Or maybe I should have used the word "handlers."