G&H's Louisiana for Vox Populi

looorg

King
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Messages
706
People have been signaling this problem in base VP too, and this mod doesn't do anything linked to AI flavours or diplomacy, so I really don't think it has something to do with it.
That could be it then. I had not noticed it in base VP with the current version. It must be somewhat intermittent then cause I had no issues with it last game I played. But this time nobody is getting open borders.

I think we should indeed replace this with flying notifications above the city when the citizen is born, instead of having a wall of notifications on the right. I never play with events, so thanks for pointing out the problem.
I was thinking more the right hand side bar. Those compacted notifications there when multiple things get compacted into one bullet point. I don't think I really pay to much attention to the things that scroll over the cities. It usually ends with you don't look at some corner of the map for a bit and then you have scrolling galore there.

My way of using the GVoyageur is to focus as much experience on one (who discovers the whole map if possible), since the GMerchant points gained from leveling up can be great with a high level unit. The other ones are more like simili GGenerals that provides healing, combat buffs and the unique temporary promotions to units on their front. That said, losing one is a problem, but you'll gain quite a few of them in a game if you manage to ramp up the GMerchant points production.

I lost track now but I have gotten 11 or 12 so far. It's only really the two first that become "great" in that regard. The first one reached lv11 from scouting alone. Which is a bit odd since it's then only one level of promotions left. But the issue might be that the following once never really amount to much since there is no or very little scouting for them to do and they don't seem to spawn with XP or full XP. As they spawn now I think most of them have gotten like one promotion max or so even with a full complement of buildings plus Order. So those are somewhat awkward to level up. Slowly trying to pick things off or just let them sit somewhere and do some city- state quests fo XP. Most of them end up as Medics or Spotters (stand on mountains and grant vision for the artillery). Some in the middle pack that managed to do like the last bit of scouting and reach say lv5-6 or so can be used for guerilla combat trying to pick of things in the rear or units that are "fleeing" or far below you in technology.


(EDIT) Regarding the UU and removal of some units. What is the ratio of the remaining UU as far as ships vs horse vs archers vs melee units and such? As noted I seem to have gotten a fair chunk of ships and horse units and nothing much else. I thought on some level that it was a fair amount of horsy units but also an absolute crapton of various spear- and pikemen replacements. But it could have just been the random.

How about the spawning units that you don't have resources for? My first was a horseman replacement and I had no horses. So it could do like 2-3 attacks and then go stand in a corner waiting for me finding some horses. So less then useful in that regard. There was horses next to the capital I just had not found them and built a pasture yet before the unit spawned so it eventually resolved itself but when I got it then it felt kind of bad.
 
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gwennog

King
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
670
Location
France
That could be it then. I had not noticed it in base VP with the current version. It must be somewhat intermittent then cause I had no issues with it last game I played. But this time nobody is getting open borders.
In the last 5 games that I tested, everyone tends to like me (except one or two warmongers who would like my territory :)), no problem with friendship, border opening,...

I was thinking more the right hand side bar. Those compacted notifications there when multiple things get compacted into one bullet point. I don't think I really pay to much attention to the things that scroll over the cities. It usually ends with you don't look at some corner of the map for a bit and then you have scrolling galore there.
If you know how, I'm a taker because I've been looking for a while :think:.

But the issue might be that the following once never really amount to much since there is no or very little scouting for them to do and they don't seem to spawn with XP or full XP.
In fact yes but without application of the gamespeed, it will be applied in the next version.

(EDIT) Regarding the UU and removal of some units. What is the ratio of the remaining UU as far as ships vs horse vs archers vs melee units and such? As noted I seem to have gotten a fair chunk of ships and horse units and nothing much else. I thought on some level that it was a fair amount of horsy units but also an absolute crapton of various spear- and pikemen replacements. But it could have just been the random.
It depends a lot on the civ mods you play with since their special units are also available. Otherwise, there are all UUs in the game except Recon, Siege and Civils (for the next version)
 

looorg

King
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Messages
706
In the last 5 games that I tested, everyone tends to like me (except one or two warmongers who would like my territory :)), no problem with friendship, border opening,...
This is why I was thinking it was odd as I had not experienced it in any other games with the current VP patch. Not until now. So my natural conclusion then was that it was something you had done. It was just so weird to have friendship, defensive pacts, embassies but not being able to have open borders. But perhaps then as H noted it's a intermittent problem with the current patch.

It depends a lot on the civ mods you play with since their special units are also available. Otherwise, there are all UUs in the game except Recon, Siege and Civils (for the next version)
I don't run a lot of different mods and such. It's the civ I'm testing plus 3&4UC and that is pretty much it. I was more thinking along the lines if you had a list remaining after you had removed whatever you removed what was left and what was the split between the different once. Such as if half of the UU left are horse units it isn't that strange that you get a lot of horse units or and along those lines. I guess I could sit and count them myself but that is slightly to much work.
 

gwennog

King
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
670
Location
France
I don't run a lot of different mods and such. It's the civ I'm testing plus 3&4UC and that is pretty much it. I was more thinking along the lines if you had a list remaining after you had removed whatever you removed what was left and what was the split between the different once. Such as if half of the UU left are horse units it isn't that strange that you get a lot of horse units or and along those lines. I guess I could sit and count them myself but that is slightly to much work.
My current game with v.2 of Louisiana + Corsica and Scotland

Spoiler list :

[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_AMERICAN_MINUTEMAN
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_ARABIAN_CAMELARCHER
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_AZTEC_JAGUAR
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_CHINESE_CHUKONU
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_EGYPTIAN_WARCHARIOT
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_ENGLISH_SHIPOFTHELINE
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_FRENCH_MUSKETEER
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_GREEK_HOPLITE
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_INDIAN_WARELEPHANT
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_IROQUOIAN_MOHAWKWARRIOR
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_JAPANESE_SAMURAI
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_OTTOMAN_JANISSARY
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_PERSIAN_IMMORTAL
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_ROMAN_LEGION
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_RUSSIAN_COSSACK
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_SIAMESE_WARELEPHANT
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_SONGHAI_MUSLIMCAVALRY
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_INCAN_SLINGER
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_POLYNESIAN_MAORI_WARRIOR
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_DANISH_BERSERKER
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_BABYLONIAN_BOWMAN
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_AUSTRIAN_HUSSAR
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_BYZANTINE_CATAPHRACT
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_CARTHAGINIAN_QUINQUEREME
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_CELT_PICTISH_WARRIOR
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_HUN_HORSE_ARCHER
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_MAYAN_ATLATLIST
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_DUTCH_SEA_BEGGAR
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_SWEDISH_CAROLEAN
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_SPANISH_CONQUISTADOR
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_ETHIOPIAN_MEHAL_SEFARI
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_KRIS_SWORDSMAN
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_BERBER_CAVALRY
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_POLISH_WINGED_HUSSAR
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_PORTUGUESE_NAU
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_SHOSHONE_COMANCHE_RIDERS
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_ZULU_IMPI
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_GERMAN_LANDSKNECHT
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_POLAND_PANCERNY
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_IROQUOIS_PROWLER
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_CELTS_SCYTHED_CHARIOT
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_MONGOLIA_BLACK_TUG
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_SHOSHONE_YELLOW_BROW
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_SPAIN_ARMADA
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_FRANCE_SPAD
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_ETHIOPIA_SHOTELAI
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_INDONESIA_DJONG
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_SWEDISH_HAKKAPELIITTA
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_BABYLON_KIBITUM
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_BYZANTIUM_DROMON
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_INDIA_DHANURAASHI
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_DENMARK_LANGSKIB
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_NETHERLANDS_GOEDENDAG
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_PERSIA_QIZILBASH
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_ENGLISH_LONGBOWMAN
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_EGYPT_MAMLUK
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_AMERICA_MONITOR
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_AUSTRIA_LANDWEHR
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_AZTEC_EAGLE
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_BRAZIL_AMAZONAS
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_MOROCCO_CORSAIR
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_VENICE_FUSTA
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_ASSYRIA_IRON_CHARIOT
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_ARABIA_HASHEMITE_RAIDER
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_PORTUGUESE_CACADORES
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_GERMAN_STORMTROOPER
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_CHINA_XIAFAN_GUANJUN
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_HUNS_TARKHAN
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_SONGHAI_SOFA
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_JAPAN_YAMATO
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_KOREAN_TURTLE_SHIP
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_VENETIAN_GALLEASS
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_GH_CORSICA_ARMIGERI
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_HININ_SCOTLAND_SCHILTRON
[166437.062] GH_Louisiana_Functions: UNIT_HININ_SCOTLAND_BIRLINN
 

Hinin

Emperor
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
1,231
Location
Right behind you
What are land plagues?

Plagues (meaning temporary promotions with negative effects) have an ID that is used to define the type of effect they create, and prevent stacking.

ID1 is for Naval Plagues (for example, the one inflicted by Boarding Party)
ID2 is for Land Plagues (for example, the one inflicted by the Incan Slinger)

Thus, being immune to Land Plagues means being immune to all plagues that have ID2, which covers all plagues inflicted by land units.
 

gwennog

King
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
670
Location
France
v.2 Online

  • UA rework : removed the Citizen birth part by construction of Buildings or Improvements, with bonus gold added ; new system for UU spawning, every 20 turns with the number of units spawned depending on CState diplomacy and the number of cities in resistance
  • Reworked formulas for UA bonus and Métissage bonus for the Grand Voyageur
  • Change to the Vieux Carré : Tech requirement changed and bonus from citizen birth replaced by tourism bonus to specific specialists and GWorks
  • Beausoleil's LeaderIcon reversed to correctly show his number of citizen in the diplo list
  • Lua Code cleanup
 
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looorg

King
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Messages
706
Tried it this Sunday morning. It's a lot more playable. That said I'm starting to lean towards this being a bit to powerful in its current form. I did have some very lucky huts getting the "crude map" event several times (four) so the first Merchant came on T22, but I couldn't plant him or use him until T26 -- no efficient spot where I would want to road until then. I had not even planned yet where I wanted the second city, more then in some general sense or idea. But I had to do it then. The second great merchant was on T61. I just put that one next to the first one.

The 20t per UU spawn might be to fast. But it feels a lot better then the 106t spawn from the last version. But in the initial game this is so fast that you'll run out of supply on Marathon games (not sure how it was on quick or standard). This was worst (even tho it's a luxury problem) when you just had the first city. It wasn't until about ~T260+ that I started to have spare supply and not running over (the units will or appear to spawn even when you have no supply to spare). But in that initial sequence I didn't have the techs for barrack/wallls and I had not pushed out more cities yet. So you get the negative above supply limit issues and effects. I ended up gifting the starting warrior to a city-state for a quest just to try and keep under the limit, I have so far not bought a single unit. My entire army is made up out of UU spawns and GreatV:s. Funny thing is that I could even make money on that quest when it showed up a second time as it was cheaper to buy a warrior then the reward for it was, so I guess I did buy a unit. Only to give it away the very next turn. Spawn list below, I have not been able to modify the spawn yet or get more then one unit or anything like that by having religious allied city-states but I'm working on that part now. The first unit was nice since it granted faith, the war chariots did help production a bit in the capital. I think I could have gone early wonders but with the supply issues it wasn't really a thing, I needed more cities to pump up the supply. The Quinquereme (the UU boat from Dido) that have been a powerhouse, it sailed away and have captured and burned several Swedish cities so far (Sweden appears to share an island with Mongolia; I also know India is somewhere and I have thanks to the crude maps seen Rome but I can't reach that part of the world yet). My first great general came on T180. I share an island with the Huns and was slightly concerned about that but shouldn't have been. I have burned their forward settle twice so I think they have sufficiently screwed (my island!). Still I would not count any of those units as being bad, the worst aspect as previously noted was that I kept getting horse units when I had no horses and the War chariots upgrade with horses. But the horse issue resolved itself eventually. It's just annoying at the start when you had none and they spawned as the units then become a bit useless for the moment. If I had to pick a worse UU I gotten it's probably the horse archers. I have not had much use for them so far; or a role that hasn't been filled and done better by the War chariots.

t20 Pictish warrior
t40 war chariot
t60 tarkhan (no horses)
t80 quinquereme
t100 tarkhan (second, still no horses but working on it)
t120 jaguar warrior
t140 immortal
t160 danurdhara
t180 second war chariot
t200 berserker
t220 berserker
t240 horse archer
t260 mohawk warrior
t280 horse archer
t300 horse archer
t320 cataphract
t340 chewa
t360 longbow, landsknecht (3 allies that have my religion)
t380 sofa, longship (5 allies with my religion)
t400 chewa, samurai (5 allies with my religion)
t420 fusta, nau, turtle ship (6 allies with religion)

As noted this might be a bit to powerful, it might have to be increased a little perhaps try 25T or 30T? As noted I have not bought any units yet (that I kept, exception mentioned above). It might have been slightly random luck but a lot of those UU have been quite powerful. I will have to buy some units eventually tho as I will need siege engines at some point. The Jaguar warrior I got on T120 is already an Eagle thanks to the abundance of barbarians. Still I'm not sure that I'm supposed to be the most powerful civilization in the world on T225 with my motley band of mercenaries or whatever we should refer to the free spawns as.

c5vox-lou2-might-t225.png

India got the first religion on T179, mine came as the second on T213. I have not met India yet but I know it's them since there was a T0/1 pantheon pick so it has to be them.

t391 first krewe (sort of like middle of the medieval era)

The gold from finishing buildings and improvements feels good. It also does count wonders, even tho it's not mentioned but I think it was supposed to as the amount of gold is about 5x a building or something such. There might be a bit of spam eventually as you'll have more and more cities finishing buildings and a multitude of workers and such. At least roads doesn't count for the kickback, that might have been silly. But building a fishing improvement with the boat does count. In the Classic era I get 45g for improving a fish, the boat costs 220g so it's like a 21% kickback. At least it's not funding itself.

So the start feels a lot better then the previous version. It has some other issues but they are more less luxury issues to have then something that feels painful playing. I like that the circle-leader isn't covering up my population tooltip anymore.
 
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looorg

King
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Messages
706
I have now played up until the beginning or the initial techs of the industrial era. It's a lot more fun then the previous version, but then being super powerful initially is always fun. Greece is eating up the big continent, Mongolia and Sweden on their island are at some kind of stalemate. Rome has an island to themselves and so do I (after having kicked of Greece and Mongolia that tried to settle here).

I had bought very few units up until then, mainly some for city-state quests. But now I started to buy siege engines and ranged ships as I needed them to support my naval landing of another island. For some reason out of all the 56 units given so far only two had been ranged ships. One of them had died fairly early, the Fausta wasn't long for this world as most early ranged ships are very weak.

But it feels good to play it now, compared to previous version. This is working a lot better. Buying units sort of becomes what you do to fill the gaps of the unique unit random draw. Sort of like if you get a lot of melee you'll buy ranged and siege and vice versa. But it's a lot better then getting one unit every 106t. It might be to many units early but it's an interesting problem that forces you to grow and expand to be able to keep the units without running into red supply. It was a bit weird tho that I was at one stage mightiest in the world with just my army of UU, I'm not any more as the AI keep cranking out units like no tomorrow; I'm still doing fine but then I now also buy units so I'm at least above the average but far behind Greece according to the demographics.

My army is now made up out of 58 (59 but minus the dead Fausta) UU units gifted to me and 37 other gifted and bought units. So lets say about 60-40 split between gifted vs bought or otherwise gained. It's highly playable and up until, with random, you can probably do fine with just living mostly on the UU. More UU will start to die now, it's just how late game (industrial+) wars are when there is gigantic hordes you fight, there will be attacks or ships coming out of nowhere etc to take units down so they will dwindle.

As noted the problems are initially that they will spawn faster then you have supply and that takes a while to get a hold on. But as it is now every 20 turns I will consume 3 supply (or more if I can just get more city-states to my side? Nope, seems you can't get more then three units per cycle). So eventually I won't be able to hold off running out of supply again but have to start getting rid of units. But that is a luxury problem.

The second one is that there appears to be an abundance of horse UU that keep using up all my horses and doesn't care if I am over my horse supply or not. It has not happened the same way with Iron, could be that I just have more iron then horses. But this to will resolve itself "soon" (as in the next era) when horses go out of unit-fashion. Until then I gift away all the units I get from the militaristic city-states that are then not unique and are using horses. Still it's hard to keep it above going into the negative.

t420 fusta, nau, turtle ship (6 allies with religion)
t440 nau, naresuan, chukonu (6ali)
t460 nau, maori warrior, black tug 32
t480 hussar, sea beggar, qizilbash 35 **
t500 hussar, naga-malla, impi 38
t520 naga-malla, armada, hakkapeliitta (41)
t540 yellow brow, qizilbash, hussar (44)
t560 hakkapeliitta, mamluk, minuteman (47)
t580 ship of the line, prowler, mamluk (50)
t600 impi, hakkapeliitta, prowler (53)
t620 yellow brow, cacador, armada (56)
t640 impi, winged hussar, musketeer (59)

Total breakdown of gifted UU
MELEE LAND 30 (17 non-horse, 13 horse)
RANGE LAND 18 (8 non-horse, 10 horse)
MELEE SHIP 9
RANGE SHIP 2 (one died so far)

As of t640 i have 11 allied states following my religion but it seems 3 unit is the maximum then so you only need to have about 6 allies with your religion to maximize the gain.

As per usual the first thing in congress to get sanctioned is the shrimp, seems the AI doesn't like you having that. Still the tile yields are nice so I'll always have that.

I did reach Acoustics at T548. I didn't really go for it. It was sort of middle of the era but the first second tier tech of the era, but I had the entire first row covered first. My second Krewe spawned the same turn and the third spawned on T616 just as I had entered the industrial era.

Some dummy building destroyed in an earthquake that I assume just gets replaced the next turn.

c5vox-lou2-volcanotime.png
 

gwennog

King
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
670
Location
France
As noted this might be a bit to powerful, it might have to be increased a little perhaps try 25T or 30T?
In this version, the number of turns is fixed at 20 without speed modifier. Hinin would be in favor of a modifier linked to the speed of the game, I would rather have a constant value. However, if we increase this value to 30 turns, the interval will be much too long in quick speed. What do you think about that?
Up to what value would you consider the rhythm interesting?

The second one is that there appears to be an abundance of horse UU that keep using up all my horses and doesn't care if I am over my horse supply or not. It has not happened the same way with Iron, could be that I just have more iron then horses.
It is a subject of discussion, should we eliminate the units from the draw pile if Louisiana does not have the necessary resources ?
For me, it's part of the game like the units given by the militaristic city states, and behind it, you choose to keep them or not, to trade to have the necessary resources,...

Some dummy building destroyed in an earthquake that I assume just gets replaced the next turn.
Yes but normally this bug is fixed in this version of VP :sad:.

Well, I have the impression that you are having more fun than the first time :), thank you for all this analysis. What policies have you chosen?
 

Urzamax

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
43
Speaking as somebody who mostly plays on Epic speed, I'd be inclined to go for scaling the UA based on gamespeed, albeit not massively so. Maybe 15 turns on Quick, 20 on Standard, 25 on Epic, 30 on Marathon?
 

gwennog

King
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
670
Location
France
Speaking as somebody who mostly plays on Epic speed, I'd be inclined to go for scaling the UA based on gamespeed, albeit not massively so. Maybe 15 turns on Quick, 20 on Standard, 25 on Epic, 30 on Marathon?
Thank you for your answer, while talking with Hinin, we also revolved around these values. Like it must be the right idea :thumbsup:.
 

looorg

King
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Messages
706
What do you think about that? Up to what value would you consider the rhythm interesting?

Perhaps one has to try a few. But I find that 20 is to fast, at least at the start of the game. I would be inclined to go (or try) 25. That way it's also a nice divider as in you will get four spawns per 100t instead of 5. But with 30 it would be wonky cause it would take a lot longer, and feel somewhat less intuitive cause the pattern isn't as (25, 50, 75,100) compared to (30,60,90,120,150,180,210,240,270,300 ...). The first one is easier to remember. But it could just be me.

That said there might have to be, or could be, different fixed intervals on different speeds. Just not x5 or what is the current norm for speed scaling between standard and marathon. Unless you want to spawn units ever 5 turns or so on quick speed. Which I gather you don't, and shouldn't. But as Urza suggested above here there might be a need for different values between different speeds in regard to what feels or works right.

But slightly increasing it should also make you more inclined to buy some early units to fill the gaps on the random. As it was not I didn't buy any units (to keep, as mentioned) until several hundred turns in. Getting the random stuff was fine in that regard.

It is a subject of discussion, should we eliminate the units from the draw pile if Louisiana does not have the necessary resources ? For me, it's part of the game like the units given by the militaristic city states, and behind it, you choose to keep them or not, to trade to have the necessary resources,...

No I don't think it should be eliminated. It could just be that there are a lot of unique horse units. It might not be one of those things one thinks to much about but here it becomes noticeable since you go into the negative on horse resources. I have not noted it on Iron, but as mentioned there could just be less UU that require iron.

Sure it's easier to get rid of units now then when they spawned one unit every 106t. But still it sort of feels bad gifting or removing free units. Also it would seem weird to give away your civilization unique ability yield.

But in some regard it just became part of the game. Look for horses, Settle horse. Is there a war; where are his horses; can I grab them. In that regard it's good. Also you have to work on plonking down the cities to get more supply and build more buildings to get more supply.

It's just that it feels a bit bad if the first few random units you get are units that require a resources that you don't have or can't (probably) have at that moment. They feel very inefficient as those units just get stuck standing around since they won't be able to heal.

(edit) After all if you don't start by picking Animal husbandry in the tech tree (but you won't since normally pick something else then Pottery then possibly animal husbandry -- but it might be different here as a viable starter), or gain it from a hut, have a worker ready (you wont or shouldnt have enough gold yet to buy one), get horses in range and instantly start to work on it (just building the pasture takes almost an entire spawn cycle on marathon; think it's about 2/3 of one) then you won't or can't have horses for at least the first five UU events (on marathon that is, tech is a lot faster on quick and standard so you shouldn't notice it as much). I looked at my spawn list and I didn't get horses until somewhere in between T100-200 so almost double that; but then already had multiple horse units. In some regard your best bet otherwise is to move you initial settler onto a spot where you think there will be horses and hope for the best; or if you get a fast great merchant plonk that on the horses.

Perhaps one could tweak the "random" from a complete random to a more curated random. Siege and such has already been removed. Such as perhaps not "randomize" in a horse/iron unit for the first few spawns? If one gets picked, forget it and pick again.

t660 carolean, winged hussar, hakkapeliitta (62)
t680 winged hussar, carolean, naga-mala /65
t700 corsair, minuteman, berber cavalry (68)

MELEE LAND 19
MELEE LAND HORSE 16
RANGE LAND 9
RANGE LAND HORSE 12

MELEE SHIP 10
RANGE SHIP 2

It might be a bit misleading since I don't mention Iron but so far I think from memory I got like one units that require iron (the samurai, he died on turn 659 in the war vs Sweden; quickly followed by two naga-malas -- I overextended a bit there ... there was a lot more artillery and range there then I had anticipated).

But still what the breakdown should show is that I get (almost) as many horse units as I get non-horse units for the melee type and I get more horse units the non-horse units for the range. Combined horse unit vs non-horse unit is the same if one doesn't count the ships. It could just be random, or it could just be that that is the way the UU are sorted. There seems to be a strong horse preference.

What policies have you chosen?

Progress 6, Fealty 1 (for the faith discount; just open it don't take anything else), Statecraft 6, Industry 3

My religion is Goddess of Renewal, Way of Noble truths, Orders, Defender of the faith, Cathedrals, Abode of peace.

Save file for T700 included. I just crushed the entire Roman island in about 50ish turns. While also being at war with Sweden and Mongolia. So I'm now in the process of burning and resettling. This is how I solved my horse problem ...
 

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looorg

King
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Messages
706
I played past T920 now and spawned over 100 unique units

MELEE LAND 27
MELEE LAND HORSE 19
RANGE LAND 17
RANGE LAND HORSE 16
RANGE LAND ALU 1

MELEE SHIP 15
RANGE SHIP 5
AIRPLANE 1

t720 corsair (melee ship), winged hussar (melee horse), grenzer (melee land) //71
t740 berber cavalry (range land horse), sea begger (melee ship), mehal sefari (melee land) *74
t760 spad s vii (airplane), monitor (ship melee), janissary (range land) *77
t780 prowler (range land), prowler (range land), baochuan (range ship) *80
t800 corsair (melee ship), grenzer (melee land), hakkapeliitta (melee horse) *83
t820 comanche rider (range horse), musketeer (melee land), musketeer (melee land) *86
t840 berber cavalry (range horse), hashemite raider (range land alu), janissary (range land) *89
t860 winged hussar (melee horse), ship of the line (ship range), prowler (range land) *92
t880 janissary (range land), naga-malla (range land), comanche riders (range horse) *95
t900 impi (melee land), bouchuan (range ship), amazonas (melee ship) *98
t920 impi (melee land), naga-malla (range land), musketeer (melee land) *101

There seems to be a definitive preference for horse units as far as ranged and such goes. Also there seems some units are a lot more common then others; possibly for them spawning during certain eras but I seem to have gotten a lot of Naga-Mallas and Impis but also a fair number of Prowlers and musketeers. Getting the Spads S VII unique aircraft several techs before flight was even invented was funny and it did good work. Still the amount of horses and horse units is or perhaps is a bit over the top, it's unlikely that you will have had 35 horses on your own so far; now it's less of an issue as they have not really spawned for a bit; the naga-malla being an elephant unit and not require horse so the last horse unit was the comanche rider on t880. That said the Naga-Malla does upgrade into a horse unit, and did for some time so it's still a horse issue and perhaps should be counted as such and in that regard the range horse issue is even more dire. Also they now get upgraded on the same turn to light tanks and then the following turn to helicopters. So the horse issue is a passing issue, even tho it took like 800t for it to not really be an issue anymore. But most of the horses have now become agribusinesses.

Now the world has just turned into an eternal world war between me and Greece. A fair number of the UU have died; it's inevitable as you get bombarded by 20-30+ aircraft every turn. Things will just die and not much that can be done about it, just so many fighters and AA guns you can have and so much they can do. The annoying aspect of it is that the diplo bug (not related to the mod,even tho I don't get it when I don't play with the mod) prevents open borders so war is a bit odd and interesting in that regard.

In the modern era I can actually make money with the tile improvement thing, buying a workboat is with various discounts around 140-150g but you get 225g (even better in the next age and beyond; 315g kickback in the information era and a workboat is now 120g) back from doing it. If one was desperate for cash you could do it, still it wouldn't really be viable. Working a tile is still to long for it to be more then a few gold per turn but you could have idle workers just standing in a non-workable tile just doing things. Still I don't think, didn't bother doing any calculations, you actually make a profit or much of one compared to not having the worker around since their maintenance is several gold per turn at this stage. But you still keep a few around, so rather then just be waiting in a city for things to happen they can stand doing that. There is just very little point to it compared to say just running espionage missions for gold or compared to the thousands of gold I make per turn from normal things. But you could if you are desperate. It might require a certain setup tho and various discounts to gold purchases etc. Also it's somewhat of an illusion as the amount might seem large but just buying a single unit of relevance or upgrading it now is or around 2000g each so getting 200g is not really all that relevant. But it's interesting that you can profit from it.
 
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Alpharius

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
89
It's been a pretty fun civ to play so far :thumbsup:. Two things though:
1. I'm getting the same issue as looorg about the notifications, but in my case it's the yields from the UA.
2. Starting from Turn 1 I get 1 GEP/Turn in the capital. I think it's a bug?

Additional thoughts on the civ:
I'm not good at analysis so most of my impressions on it are crude at most :hammer2:.
From my experience so far it's a top-tier civ though, as usually I struggle to keep up with the AI on Emperor, but I've been top dog in my first game as Lousiana for nearly the whole game. Not sure if that's because the civ itself is OP or it just fits my playstyle :shifty:
 

gwennog

King
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
670
Location
France
It's been a pretty fun civ to play so far :thumbsup:. Two things though:
Thank you to try it :).

1. I'm getting the same issue as looorg about the notifications, but in my case it's the yields from the UA.
You mean that the number of messages per turn is too many?

Starting from Turn 1 I get 1 GEP/Turn in the capital. I think it's a bug?
Sorry, I don't know what a GEP is :dunno:.

Additional thoughts on the civ:
It's an interesting feedback for the balance, how game speed did you play?
 

Alpharius

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
89
You mean that the number of messages per turn is too many?
Yes, sometimes a notification would persist for several turns, even when the UA isn't triggered.

Sorry, I don't know what a GEP is :dunno:
Oh, I meant to say I was receiving Great Engineer points :c5greatperson: in the capital, even without specialists, wonders, or beliefs for it. I'm not certain if it's due to Louisiana itself, though I'll post again when I start another game with them.
.

It's an interesting feedback for the balance, how game speed did you play?
I played on Large map/Epic speed/Emperor difficulty to maximize the utility of the UU. One mistake I made is picking Tradition but surprisingly I did very well, leading in score starting from Classical Era, and always within top 2 tech-wise. Usually when playing other civs I only start to catch up during Industrial/later eras :lol:

Really like the Grand Voyaguer as a sort of super scout (I even used them to attack cities lol) but the Unique Great Musician felt underwhelming, and because I felt it's too much of a hassle to time the next UU acquisition I never utilized the GM and UA synergy :scared:

Overall it was pretty fun to play, but I think the UA could use some more tweaks? As looorg previously mentioned, 3 UU (maxed) per UA trigger doesn't feel game-changing especially when going warmonger.
 
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gwennog

King
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
670
Location
France
Yes, sometimes a notification would persist for several turns, even when the UA isn't triggered.
I did not notice this problem, I will look.

Overall it was pretty fun to play, but I think the UA could use some more tweaks? As looorg previously mentioned, 3 UU (maxed) per UA trigger doesn't feel game-changing especially when going warmonger.
Thank you for your return, we are instead planning to slow down the number of units a bit on slow speeds. Maybe allow more UUs at the same time, but with higher thresholds?
 

gwennog

King
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
670
Location
France
v.3 Online:

Changed UU spawn rules:
  • Spawn speed is conditioned by game speed: Base 20 turns with 0.75/1/1.25/1.5 modifiers.
  • No limit on the number of UUs at once, the formula is now: 1 + 1/10 points (2 per Allied CS and City in resistance, 1 per City friend)
Added a new Krewe:
 
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