Gary Johnson for President

Omega124

Challenging Fate
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I noticed that no dedicated thread existed for Gary Johnson, but one existed for Jill Stein. I decided to rectify that, and make the case for who I personally believe is the best candidate for President of the United States.

Firstly, I stress everyone, who has the chance, to go out and watch the CNN town halls with Johnson and Weld, down below. They're long at about an hour a piece, so I'm not going to chastise you if you don't, but I think its best if you hear what Johnson and Weld believe in, in their own mouths.


Link to video.

Link to video.

With that out of the way, I'm going to list the top 5 reasons why I personally support Johnson/Weld, in descending order:

5. Experience with integrity

Johnson and Weld, unlike Trump, have experience in public office, namely being the governors of New Mexico and Massachusetts in the 90s, respectively. Weld was also the Head of the Criminal Division of the Justice Department prior to his governorship, and Johnson was a successful self-made businessman who didn't get a small loan of a million dollars from his dad, nor ever declared bankruptcy.

In both states, Johnson and Weld enjoyed supreme success in working with their state legislatures in making sound legislation to improve the quality of their states. New Mexico under Johnson saw a 10% growth to their economy every year under his first term while even raising the state's education budget, turned New Mexico's decifit into a billion dollar surplus with no tax increases whatsoever, and helped make sure relief efforts for New Mexico during one of the state's worst wildfires reached the right places with as little bureaucratic holdups as possible, saving lives and millions in property damage. By all accounts, Johnson is probably one of the top five governors in American history.

Weld, meanwhile, also helped his state by reducing the deficit while even cutting taxes. While he didn't have the same dramatic successes that Johnson did, he also didn't have as favorable of a state legislature, mainly due to his own party's opposition of Weld trying to work with Democrats for gun control laws.

Which brings me to the second part of the clause: integrity

Johnson and Weld aren't like Clinton, who changes her stance constantly as the winds of the political landscape change. Johnson was pro-legalization of weed/ending the drug war in the 90s (Weld being for medical marijuana in the 90s as well, although not calling for full legalization at that time), Weld was pro gay marriage in the 90s (with Johnson being more pro-civil unions for homosexual and heterosexual couples, thinking the state shouldn't be in the marriage business at all. That being said, he does supports the adoption of gay marriage despite that) both were pro-choice for abortions, etc. They were quite radically socially liberal for Republicans, perhaps even when compared to the Clintonist Democrats that were the face for their party at the time. They didn't hold these opinions just because it was cool, but because they sincerely believed in the principles of whatever issue was at question. And I can respect that a lot.

4. Willing to compromise

Unlike especially the modern GOP wing, Johnson and Weld are firm believers that the best way to get things done in Congress is to work with the other side. Johnson and Weld have firm principles and are willing to stand by them, but they also know how to incorporate their principles into meaningful compromises into making sure government still works.

Take guns, for instance. Johnson and Weld are firm believers in the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms. That will never change. However, they have said in the first town hall that they were open to working with Democrats, if in office, to enact gun control laws, as long as that fundamental principle was respected and the actual provisions were meaningful (not just banning safety features on guns because they look scary)

Again, the fact that Johnson and Weld were multi-term Republican governors in heavily pro-Democratic states shows how effective they were at comprimising with interests from both parities to make sure their overarching principles (cutting bloat from the government while making sure it stays effective and doesn't increase the tax burden) were enacted in both Massachusetts and New Mexico.

3. Non-Interventionalism

Foreign Policy is perhaps one of my personal biggest issues when it comes to whom to support, and Johnson and Weld are completely on point.

Both opposed the Iraq War since the beginning, and while initially supporting Afghanistan under the principle of that we were attacked, they both were against the continued occupation of the country and wanted to withdraw troops as early as six months after the campaign started with Johnson. Both were against Libya, and were also against the proposed intervention in Syria. The common arching thread in the Johnson campaign is that the best thing to do with the Middle East is simply stop wasting American dollars and lives fixing a quagmire that honestly we started in the first place. This involves also cutting off foreign aid to Israel (although maintaining a military alliance with it, abliet only for defensive conflicts), and opening up meaningful trade with Iran.

When it comes to ISIS, its a bit nuanced, but he does think that ultimately, the middle east has to solve it mostly themselves, but is not opposed to have America help them solve it if need be (but only through a legal declaration of war, with the full support of Congress).

Ultimately, ending the 30+ year quagmire America got itself since the Iranian Revolution in the Middle East would be absolutely fantastic, and that Johnson has the best, most cohesive plan to safely exit from our Middle East entanglements. I feel Clinton would just escalate it more by pushing for a regime change in Syria like she did as SoS, and Trump is too unpredictable to handle the nuances of international relations.

2. End the Surveillance State

Johnson has said that he would repeal the Patriot Act, abolish the TSA (aka, have airports provide their own security), and that he would consider pardoning Snowden, Manning, and Ross Ulbricht. This separates him greatly from Clinton and Trump, who prefer to continue to erode our civil liberties rather than curbing on the excesses of the Bush administration. As someone who has read 1984 and is extremely worried about the rise of tyranny through the surveillance state, this is a breath of fresh air to me.

1. Protect Social Liberties

I touched upon this at the end of number 5, but it bears repeating again: Johnson and Weld sincerely believe that people should be free to do whatever the hell they want. They aren't Pro-X simply because its convenient, but because they actually believe it. Beyond the typical trio of gay marriage, ending the war on drugs, and pro-choice, here are other positions that they hold that are essential rights of Americans:

No Eminent Domain for Private Corporations: only use Eminent Domain for essential public services.
End the Death Penalty
Lowering the Drinking Age to 18 (old enough to vote, old enough to drink)
Pro-Labor Unions and the right to organize (he has said his only issue with them is that they make bad employees too difficult to fire, but is otherwise completely pro-union rights)
Pro-Encryption rights, and wants to end mass datamining of American citizens without a warrant.


Honorable Mentions: While I don't necessarily agree with Johnson/Weld's entire economic platform (I consider myself a left-wing libertarian and theirs is pretty right wing), they did say they would prosecute Wall Street for the recession and hold those who were financially reckless with the economy responsible. No Golden Parachutes for breaking the law.

Also, he is against adding any federal taxes on online purchases. Great for us who buy games online :cool:
 
"States Rights" - The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

the alternatives are a scumbag who lied us into a war resulting in the massive loss of life and Donald Trump
 
sounded like you didn't think there was any logical basis to "states rights", so it was amusing you'd follow that up by complaining about his adherence to the very same Constitution that mentions them
 
Johnson also supports for-profit prisons,

Admittedly a problem, which I never fully understood why he's so into them. That being said, ending the war on drugs and pardoning non-violent drug offenders (something he has said he would do numerous times) would really cut back on the excesses of the prision system, privatized or not. Hell, there probably wouldn't even /need/ private prisions because that would cut current prison population by about half.

opposes stem-cell research,

Not on the 2016 platform. Furthermore, the reference to it on his Republican, 2012 platform was no federal funding towards stem cell research, not a ban on it, and is likely more for fiscal reasons than any morality-based reasons.

opposes net neutrality,

The "source" for that comment is a youtube video which doesn't exist. I have literally never heard of him speaking for or against net neutrality either way. But I have heard of him protecting free speech on the internet and right to encryption, and in general for a free, open internet. I don't see why he would therefore support the end of net neutrality.

I'm going to have to call bs on that, thusly.

thinks that immigration is a problem,

No he doesn't?

He wants to make immigration easier, particular for low-income foreigners to get work visas. One of his big platforms this election cycle, in fact, is a very ambitious "grant any illegal immigrant currently in this country a work visa" plan, which is a far cry of thinking immigrants are a problem.

I literally don't see a problem with his immigration plan, so if you have an issue, can you be more specific?

wants to further privatise education,

OK, WIM, I'll be honest; I'm kind of ignorant on this issue. I can't really make a case for or against it, because the only exposure to charter schools I have is that I qualified to go to a prestigious one near my high school and I would have gone to it if my school district wasn't a bag of dicks and wouldn't hand out the vouchers to anyone in our school district.

So don't feel really qualified to say anything, sorry. :dunno:

has conflicting views on abortion,

Seems pretty pro-choice to me.

thinks that ''states rights'' are a thing, treats the Constitution as if it were some sort of holy document,

I think its good that politicians respect that federalism is a thing? In general, I prefer a decentralized state because I feel locals can make better decisions on local affairs than national bodies that have to juggle the interests of a wide diverse country. Just like how syndicalism is better than any marxist-leninist derived communism. :mischief:

supports the privatization of the TSA,

As I said in the OP, Good. Screw the TSA. Waste of money. Just security theatrics than inconvenience Americans without actually making us safer. Plus, the TSA is widely known for discriminating against trans people in specific due to anatomical issues, so double screw them.

supports Israel,

Supports Israel so much he wants to cut off all foreign aid to them. :rolleyes:

I had a few more paragraphs written about how and why Israel and Palestine is such a complex, nuanced issue and that being rabidly pro or anti one side (like you) helps no one in causing long lasting peace in the region, but then I realized its off topic to this thread and I don't want to talk about it because of how complex and nuanced it is. There's no winning strategy in the Middle East; I honestly believe we screwed it up so badly since 1980 that it will be a source of conflict until the day I die. It's not black or white*; its complex shades of grey, some of which are darker than other under differing lights. And I'm gong to leave it at that.


*Except ISIS. Blackest of blacks.


opposes workers rights,

My understanding is that he's actually pro-labor rights? That is the Libertarianism is all about free association, which means association of workers just as much as anyone else. The real anti-union candidate is Trump, not Johnson.

His 2016 platform doesn't discuss labor's role in the economy one way or the other, for reference. Which makes sense since he's not exactly running as a socialist like my previous man Bernie, but at the same point, he's not rabidly going against them like certain people are.

supports raising the retirement age,

Yeah, its not good, no question about that. But at the same point, old voters are some of the most reliable voters out there; I highly doubt that would ever pass. Like I said, I don't agree with his economic policies, but its not like Clinton/Stein are any closer to what I want.

Of course, the actual solution for medicare is just universal healthcare rather than this half public, half private mess, but :dunno:

restricting and privatising Social Security,

See above

opposes public healthcare,

I don't think that's an honest charge; if he did, he wouldn't be supporting the pre-Obamacare status quo like he does. And, again, this half public/half private mess helps no one. Of course, I prefer I full public system as the long term solution while Johnson doesn't, and that is a difference I can admit, but does anyone support public health care? Maybe Stein? Certainly not the Republicrats.

supports the TPP,

My honest hope is that he sees the trade deal for what it is very soon and changes his mind.

He has talked about crony capitalism and his hatred for it; I again point out he wants to prosecute Wall Street, and here's a small excerpt of him on NAFTA:

"So much of the legislation that we pass isn't really free market at all. It's touted as free market, when the reality ends up to be very corporate. The reality ends up to be corporatism. I was always looking at business legislation from the standpoint of having it affect everyone equally as opposed to big business being further advantaged. So many of these treaties--NAFTA being one--the criticism of NAFTA should be rooted in the fact that big business became even bigger business."

thinks that capitalist markets will stop global warming,

It's a mixed effort. Government definitely needs to step in the short term and decrease our reliance on (especially foreign) fossil fuels, but at the same point, non-nuclear clean energy is pretty crap right now and can't fully take over our energy needs. And nuclear itself isn't a permanent solution, due to waste by-products and the limited supply of uranium.

Ultimately private innovators are going to have to help making clean energy viable. The government can and should help, but it's a team effort overall.

and supports the construction of coal-fired power plants

I appreciate the effort to get us energy independent at the very least. Obviously nuclear plants would be the best solution for the now, and if it was President Megan on the helm that's what I would be selling, but it is a tougher sell due to the anti-nuclear hysteria in the nation.

At least he isn't sticking his fingers in the ears and going "la la la" to a real problem.

Frankly, I'm shocked that you support him in any way

Because Clinton is a crook who rigged the primary, Trump is a fascist, and Stein has poor judgement (her vice president pick says it all) and is kind of an anti-science nutjob. Meanwhile, Johnson has integrity, actual job experience, and his non-economic platform is imo very tightly aligned with my own values. He's not Sanders by any means (who for non IOTers, I agreed with Sanders 98% of the time on ISideWith at one point), but Johnson is a close enough second choice for me.
 
Johnson is insane on economics. While there are some social liberty issues of his I like, he's just too ignorant of too many important issues to be acceptable as president.
 
Omega124 said:
OK, WIM, I'll be honest; I'm kind of ignorant on this issue. I can't really make a case for or against it, because the only exposure to charter schools I have is that I qualified to go to a prestigious one near my high school and I would have gone to it if my school district wasn't a bag of dicks and wouldn't hand out the vouchers to anyone in our school district.

Charter schools and voucher programs which Johnson supports are a thinly-veiled attempt to reintroduce segregation into the school system (while extracting a nice profit of course). White people end up at the private schools and the charter schools, and when the public schools are mostly attended by students of color they can safely be de-funded without political ramifications.
 
Charter schools and voucher programs which Johnson supports are a thinly-veiled attempt to reintroduce segregation into the school system (while extracting a nice profit of course). White people end up at the private schools and the charter schools, and when the public schools are mostly attended by students of color they can safely be de-funded without political ramifications.

That.... seems a bit overly cynical. But also likely true to some degree. Jeez, now I'm conflicted on that :sad:
 
I mean, characterizing it as a thinly-veiled attempt to reintroduce segregation is wrong because the people behind this are just trying to get in on a cash cow, not resegregate the schools. But segregation is the effect. And it is really horrible but true that when you get white students mostly out of a school district the politics around education funding shift such that cuts become much easier to impose.

In Kansas for example, several of gov. Brownback's allies have been defeated in the GOP primaries by more moderate challengers, because there are still white kids attending Kansas public schools (not too many black people in the state as a whole) so the draconian cuts to education funding in the state have produced a backlash.
 
I'm hoping Johnson gets into the debates, mostly because I think it would be bad for Trump. As others have said, the Libertarian positions on some issues align with my own, but I wouldn't vote for them. I have a friend who's really aggravated by libertarians. iirc, a couple of the topics of discussion at the libertarian convention were whether the federal government overstepped with the 1964 Civil Rights Act and whether the government should be issuing driver's licenses. :lol:
 
Voting a libertarian into office might be a stupider idea than voting Trump into office. I mean, there's pretty much 0 chance this guy can win to begin with, so we're safe from the libertarian wrath for now.. So that's good.
Nah, Johnson would very certainly be a better president than Trump, the problem is the assumption that voting for Johnson would make it more likely for him and less likely for Trump to become president, when neither of those is true.
 
I was a Libertarian for a while. I believe I've said on this board before that I now consider it to be a disastrous political ideology. I don't honestly know to what extent Gary Johnson actually buys into this ideology, but running under its banner makes it very hard for me to consider him a credible alternative, though he'd obviously be far preferable to Trump, simply from a competence standpoint.
 
Admittedly a problem, which I never fully understood why he's so into them. That being said, ending the war on drugs and pardoning non-violent drug offenders (something he has said he would do numerous times) would really cut back on the excesses of the prision system, privatized or not. Hell, there probably wouldn't even /need/ private prisions because that would cut current prison population by about half.

The War on Drugs isn't even close to the only problem with the US prison system, and privatising US prisons would only make its current issues worse

The "source" for that comment is a youtube video which doesn't exist. I have literally never heard of him speaking for or against net neutrality either way. But I have heard of him protecting free speech on the internet and right to encryption, and in general for a free, open internet. I don't see why he would therefore support the end of net neutrality.

He wants to keep the internet entirely market-based, which in practice, means having companies throttle internet speeds

He wants to make immigration easier, particular for low-income foreigners to get work visas. One of his big platforms this election cycle, in fact, is a very ambitious "grant any illegal immigrant currently in this country a work visa" plan, which is a far cry of thinking immigrants are a problem.

I literally don't see a problem with his immigration plan, so if you have an issue, can you be more specific?

I was referring to this:

wikipedia said:
Johnson opposes building a fence or wall along the Mexican border or placing National Guard units there,[7] because "security measures along the borders are just not enough" and "do not completely solve the immigration problem."

In any case, Johnson doesn't support open borders, which means he supports immigration that is at least in some way restricted


Opposes Roe vs. Wade

I think its good that politicians respect that federalism is a thing? In general, I prefer a decentralized state because I feel locals can make better decisions on local affairs than national bodies that have to juggle the interests of a wide diverse country. Just like how syndicalism is better than any marxist-leninist derived communism. :mischief:

States are by definition centralized, and if you want decentralization, you're going to have to remove them. Anarcho-syndicalism is indeed better than Marxism-Leninism, though.

As I said in the OP, Good. Screw the TSA. Waste of money. Just security theatrics than inconvenience Americans without actually making us safer. Plus, the TSA is widely known for discriminating against trans people in specific due to anatomical issues, so double screw them.

The problem isn't that he wants to end the TSA, it's that he wants to privatise it, which won't solve any of the problems it has.

My understanding is that he's actually pro-labor rights? That is the Libertarianism is all about free association, which means association of workers just as much as anyone else. The real anti-union candidate is Trump, not Johnson.

You can have more than one anti-union candidate running for President, you know. Right-wing ''libertarianism'' is theoretically about private companies running without any regulations from the government, which would annihilate worker's rights. Johnson wants to remove union protections against being unfairly fired, which is a pretty important right.

Yeah, its not good, no question about that. But at the same point, old voters are some of the most reliable voters out there; I highly doubt that would ever pass. Like I said, I don't agree with his economic policies, but its not like Clinton/Stein are any closer to what I want.

Of course, the actual solution for medicare is just universal healthcare rather than this half public, half private mess, but :dunno:

I don't think that's an honest charge; if he did, he wouldn't be supporting the pre-Obamacare status quo like he does. And, again, this half public/half private mess helps no one. Of course, I prefer I full public system as the long term solution while Johnson doesn't, and that is a difference I can admit, but does anyone support public health care? Maybe Stein? Certainly not the Republicrats.

Privatising social security and raising the retirement age might not pass, but it shows the obsession with privatisation that the ''Libertarian'' Party has. Also, you don't have to vote for a specific candidate if you don't want to, especially considering the fact that they're all terrible. Politicians in the US have been promising public healthcare for decades, but they're not going to create a public healthcare system if it isn't fought for in the streets.

My honest hope is that he sees the trade deal for what it is very soon and changes his mind.

He has talked about crony capitalism and his hatred for it; I again point out he wants to prosecute Wall Street, and here's a small excerpt of him on NAFTA:

Regardless of what you hope will happen, as it stands, Gary Johnson supports the TPP. ''Crony capitalism'' is a cop-out argument used to defend a pro-capitalist position while ignoring the problems it's causing today.

It's a mixed effort. Government definitely needs to step in the short term and decrease our reliance on (especially foreign) fossil fuels, but at the same point, non-nuclear clean energy is pretty crap right now and can't fully take over our energy needs. And nuclear itself isn't a permanent solution, due to waste by-products and the limited supply of uranium.

Ultimately private innovators are going to have to help making clean energy viable. The government can and should help, but it's a team effort overall.

Nuclear looks like it's becoming a more permanent solution than it seems considering the development of new technologies such as fast-breeder reactors and LFTR. In any case, the energy sector in private hands would only increase the reliance on fossil fuels, considering how ridiculously profitable they are.


Because Clinton is a crook who rigged the primary, Trump is a fascist, and Stein has poor judgement (her vice president pick says it all) and is kind of an anti-science nutjob. Meanwhile, Johnson has integrity, actual job experience, and his non-economic platform is imo very tightly aligned with my own values. He's not Sanders by any means (who for non IOTers, I agreed with Sanders 98% of the time on ISideWith at one point), but Johnson is a close enough second choice for me.

Again, you're not being forced to vote for a specific candidate, and Johnson's integrity is based on having honestly terrible positions, which doesn't seem much better than a candidate who looks good but has no integrity. Also, economic platforms are more important than you're making them out to be, since they affect most other positions, and disagreeing with a candidate's economic platform means disagreeing with most of their platform in general.

If you want a legacy that Sanders started, you need to fight for it in the streets, not vote for Gary Johnson.
 
When he was running as a Republican in 2008, I was generally supportive until he exposed himself as a Fairtaxer. I think he is pushing a variation on that theme this time around. No thanks.
 
Nah, Johnson would very certainly be a better president than Trump, the problem is the assumption that voting for Johnson would make it more likely for him and less likely for Trump to become president, when neither of those is true.

The main reason I don't want a libertarian in office anywhere is that from my experience libertarians have 0 connection to reality and base all of their decisions on ideology.

If this guy is some sort of a "soft" Libertarian, i.e. mainly only a libertarian in name, then I would definitely want him in there instead of Trump, and maybe even Clinton. But if he's an actual bona fide libertarian, then forget it.
 
Afaict he is a "soft libertarian", but let's assume he is an all out ideologue.

I think he'd still be tied with Trump in terms of connection to reality. With his constant bold faced lying and conspiracy theory mongering he's really tough to beat. And overall I think personal temperament is more important for a president than ideology, because the latter will invariably be mellowed down by the political process and separation of powers.
 
Saddly, I can't vote for him due to the following:

1. He's not on the ballot in my state (yet)
2. Even if he was on the ballot in my state, I hold an apathetic view of third parties in which a vote for them is essentially throwing away a vote due to the long standing trend that third parties don't do very well in presidential elections. In this case I would see a Nader Effect coming into play (along with Jill) that a vote for him (or any third party) would go for eather Trump or Hillary
 
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