Northern Pike
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bed_head7 said:
Great.
Gator01 - Team B - 100K
- Thread starter DJMGator13
- Start date
Great.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Gator01B_350BC.SAV
530 BC (1) - The Germans stole the spot with two wheats.
IT - The Russians demand our last 8g. I am very tempted to say no, but caving is the much safer course, so I grudgingly give in. It is somewhat distressing that with 100% towards cash, we are netting 0gpt.
510 BC (2) - MM up to 2gpt!
470 BC (4) - Sell furs for a miniscule amount, but the route is safe and it gives us some extra cash. Found Kahnawake near the wheats.
410 BC (7) - Found Cauhnawaga, in that spot south of Salamanca that NP suggested ages ago. It will take a harbor to be of any use, though, and harbors are just so expensive. Fuedalism also circulated this turn, but Russia doesn't have iron hooked up.
390 BC (8) - Gems are hooked up, so I can move the MW acting as MP in our core out towards Russia.
350 BC (10) - Learn republic, revolt, and get the new gov immediately. Forgot that that is what happens pre-Conquests. So things aren't as I expected to leave them. This last turn is basically halfway over, as cities need to be MMed, units moved. I didn't declare on Russia, as that is not my place in the last turn of my set, but assumed that that was what we what be doing. No reason to set it all up for Republic, and then redo it for a Golden Age. Forgot to mention that there are 13 MW fortified in that city.
530 BC (1) - The Germans stole the spot with two wheats.
IT - The Russians demand our last 8g. I am very tempted to say no, but caving is the much safer course, so I grudgingly give in. It is somewhat distressing that with 100% towards cash, we are netting 0gpt.
510 BC (2) - MM up to 2gpt!
470 BC (4) - Sell furs for a miniscule amount, but the route is safe and it gives us some extra cash. Found Kahnawake near the wheats.
410 BC (7) - Found Cauhnawaga, in that spot south of Salamanca that NP suggested ages ago. It will take a harbor to be of any use, though, and harbors are just so expensive. Fuedalism also circulated this turn, but Russia doesn't have iron hooked up.
390 BC (8) - Gems are hooked up, so I can move the MW acting as MP in our core out towards Russia.
350 BC (10) - Learn republic, revolt, and get the new gov immediately. Forgot that that is what happens pre-Conquests. So things aren't as I expected to leave them. This last turn is basically halfway over, as cities need to be MMed, units moved. I didn't declare on Russia, as that is not my place in the last turn of my set, but assumed that that was what we what be doing. No reason to set it all up for Republic, and then redo it for a Golden Age. Forgot to mention that there are 13 MW fortified in that city.
Sounds good! Pity I can't look at the save yet.
Northern Pike
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bed_head7 said:
My fault. I made a couple of references to anarchy. It's hard to avoid this kind of thing when you play different versions of the game.
We look to be well set up for the assault on Russia--particularly because Cathy's still at war with the Germans, so she can't have much left over for our front. Whoever plays next is going to have fun.
The Russians have been founding junk cities at a great rate, but we should just ignore them and strike into the Russian heartland.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
I've setup an AA spoiler thread for us. We also have some comparison graphs thanks to Gyathaar.
Northern Pike
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Thanks a lot. But what are the conditions to be met before the spoiler thread can be read? Entry into the Middle Ages and the posting of one's own spoiler?
Northern Pike
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Yes, absolutely--though I suppose by now you've played or you haven't.
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First of all... Here is the >>SAVE<<
Turnlog to 150BC
350BC: Pre-turn.
Raise Lux to 10% make a scientist in Niagara and a couple of taxmen in smaller cities.
330BC:
Have to raise happiness again. Must declare war if only to hook up the gems.
Attack and capture Krasnoyarsk without loss.
Our GA begins.
Attack and Capture Vladivostock.
Buy a worker from Germany.
IBT:
Russia lands a horse next to capital.
310BC:
Captured Odessa without loss.
Kiev choses to grow to size 7. It has to be the next target.
Rush a spear to hold the hand of a settler who wants to trade silks overseas.
IBT:
A MW is attacked by a Russian Horse and is promoted.
290BC:
Capture Kiev for the loss of 1 MW.
Order some settlers to back fill our new land.
We are now strong vs the Russians.
IBT:
Lose a MW to a Russian Horse.
270BC:
No Attacks possible this turn due to distances involved. Setup to take St. Petersburg next turn.
250BC:
I buggered up the setup for ST. Petes. I can't get there this turn afterall. I move against St Pete, to reveal a fully functional German archer army about to attack it. Let's hope there is more than one unit garrisoned.
IBT:
Archer jumps out of St Petes and attacks MW. We win, but there can't be enough units left to defend against the Germans. German archer attacks St Petes and loses. Half a dozen more german units arrive at the scene. German archer attacks St Petes and loses.
German army attacks St Petes and wins, leaving a yellow lined spear as garrison. The attacks stop.
230BC:
Attack and take St. Petes without loss. Setup attack on Tblisi. May even risk attacking Moscow across the river to prevent the Germans getting there first. The Oracle would be handy for a few turns.
IBT:
The Germans attack Moscow. What a mess! They leave units all over the place and I cannot reach the city this turn.
210BC:
Tblisi falls without loss.
Decide on an aggressive settling strategy, and found a city on the silks near Tarentum and Leeds. This will annoy the Romans and the English. Hope this is OK with everyone.
The attacks have stalled rather because of all the German movement.
Smolensk is going to be tough methinks.
190BC:
Attack Moscow, and take without loss. Hurry the temple in the silks city Chondote.
IBT:
Russia and England sign MA vs Persia. I know what I would do if I were Russia. Will they be that clever though?
170BC:
Pretty quiet. Will attack Smolensk next turn.
IBT:
Russians land an Archer next to our capital. But I was ready, as they telegraphed it somewhat. Our MW promotes.
150BC:
Capture Smolensk without loss.
I leave it here, with movement in all our units as it may be a good
time to take peace. We can get Monotheism, Feudalism and 3 cities now. Russia would be completely finished of course and we would have a decent core. There is one other size two city (the capital) that we could take by force in two turns, and it might be worth the time and effort. If this is the plan then the stack that is shown in the screenshot should move to the hill now.
We should discuss.
Finally - the Germans are very strong. However, I do not think we should shy away from a fight with them. At the moment they do not have iron hooked up - but they do have iron with a road on the hill adjacent. With correct play, we should be able to deal with them adequately. We would need a couple of turns to position our units correctly as we must decimate their stack on the first turn. I think this should be our focus. It's a game breaker IMO.
Turnlog to 150BC
350BC: Pre-turn.
Raise Lux to 10% make a scientist in Niagara and a couple of taxmen in smaller cities.
330BC:
Have to raise happiness again. Must declare war if only to hook up the gems.
Attack and capture Krasnoyarsk without loss.
Our GA begins.
Attack and Capture Vladivostock.
Buy a worker from Germany.
IBT:
Russia lands a horse next to capital.
310BC:
Captured Odessa without loss.
Kiev choses to grow to size 7. It has to be the next target.
Rush a spear to hold the hand of a settler who wants to trade silks overseas.
IBT:
A MW is attacked by a Russian Horse and is promoted.
290BC:
Capture Kiev for the loss of 1 MW.
Order some settlers to back fill our new land.
We are now strong vs the Russians.
IBT:
Lose a MW to a Russian Horse.
270BC:
No Attacks possible this turn due to distances involved. Setup to take St. Petersburg next turn.
250BC:
I buggered up the setup for ST. Petes. I can't get there this turn afterall. I move against St Pete, to reveal a fully functional German archer army about to attack it.
Let's hope there is more than one unit garrisoned.IBT:
Archer jumps out of St Petes and attacks MW. We win, but there can't be enough units left to defend against the Germans. German archer attacks St Petes and loses. Half a dozen more german units arrive at the scene. German archer attacks St Petes and loses.
German army attacks St Petes and wins, leaving a yellow lined spear as garrison. The attacks stop.
230BC:
Attack and take St. Petes without loss. Setup attack on Tblisi. May even risk attacking Moscow across the river to prevent the Germans getting there first. The Oracle would be handy for a few turns.
IBT:
The Germans attack Moscow. What a mess! They leave units all over the place and I cannot reach the city this turn.
210BC:
Tblisi falls without loss.
Decide on an aggressive settling strategy, and found a city on the silks near Tarentum and Leeds. This will annoy the Romans and the English. Hope this is OK with everyone.
The attacks have stalled rather because of all the German movement.
Smolensk is going to be tough methinks.
190BC:
Attack Moscow, and take without loss. Hurry the temple in the silks city Chondote.
IBT:
Russia and England sign MA vs Persia. I know what I would do if I were Russia. Will they be that clever though?
170BC:
Pretty quiet. Will attack Smolensk next turn.
IBT:
Russians land an Archer next to our capital. But I was ready, as they telegraphed it somewhat. Our MW promotes.
150BC:
Capture Smolensk without loss.
I leave it here, with movement in all our units as it may be a good
time to take peace. We can get Monotheism, Feudalism and 3 cities now. Russia would be completely finished of course and we would have a decent core. There is one other size two city (the capital) that we could take by force in two turns, and it might be worth the time and effort. If this is the plan then the stack that is shown in the screenshot should move to the hill now.
We should discuss.
Finally - the Germans are very strong. However, I do not think we should shy away from a fight with them. At the moment they do not have iron hooked up - but they do have iron with a road on the hill adjacent. With correct play, we should be able to deal with them adequately. We would need a couple of turns to position our units correctly as we must decimate their stack on the first turn. I think this should be our focus. It's a game breaker IMO.
Northern Pike
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Superb! 
That was like a Mounted Warrior blitz at regent.
That was like a Mounted Warrior blitz at regent.
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I know it looks like a tactical masterpiece, but actually was reasonably trivial. Their war with the Germans had more than a hint of historical accuracy except that the Russians lost the war of attrition this time. The Russians had no army to speak of and two cities were down to their last wounded defender by the time I reached them.
The key now is to kill the Germans. No horses, no iron (yet), we're in our GA with 25 to 30 MW's. We won't get a better opportunity - the window for which is shrinking rapidly. The Germans will have hooked up iron within 5 turns I'd guess, and things will get much harder.
The Germans also have the Great Library. Let's grab it and get the slingshot. Things are looking up now. We need a leader or two. The FP in Russia with a new Capital in Germany and you can stick a fork in us.
The key now is to kill the Germans. No horses, no iron (yet), we're in our GA with 25 to 30 MW's. We won't get a better opportunity - the window for which is shrinking rapidly. The Germans will have hooked up iron within 5 turns I'd guess, and things will get much harder.
The Germans also have the Great Library. Let's grab it and get the slingshot. Things are looking up now. We need a leader or two. The FP in Russia with a new Capital in Germany and you can stick a fork in us.
Northern Pike
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I agree with making peace with the Russians and striking the Germans as soon as possible.
Moscow looks like a good spot for the Forbidden Palace, when we get a Great Leader. The core cities we've taken from the Russians would then fit together very well for RCP purposes (at a distance of five), though Sevastopol will have to go.
I'm glad to see that we've got four settlers. Given our victory condition, we should treat bad territory as an opportunity for ICS. We'll eventually want to cram two more cities into the Mauch Chunk-Oil Springs-Vladivostok triangle, and three more into the Odessa-Krasnoyarsk-St. Regis gap.
But foundations in the former Russian lands intended to produce good cities should have priority, of course. I'd put one on the forest tile two east of Tblisi, another two tiles southeast of Kiev (two bad coastal squares, but a free aqueduct, and a good RCP spot), and a third two south of Tblisi.
Oil Springs and Caughnawaga are losing much of the GA bonus by working zero-shield tiles.
Space and/or Ainwood, can you play now? KB, if they indicate they can't, you're up.
Moscow looks like a good spot for the Forbidden Palace, when we get a Great Leader. The core cities we've taken from the Russians would then fit together very well for RCP purposes (at a distance of five), though Sevastopol will have to go.
I'm glad to see that we've got four settlers. Given our victory condition, we should treat bad territory as an opportunity for ICS. We'll eventually want to cram two more cities into the Mauch Chunk-Oil Springs-Vladivostok triangle, and three more into the Odessa-Krasnoyarsk-St. Regis gap.
But foundations in the former Russian lands intended to produce good cities should have priority, of course. I'd put one on the forest tile two east of Tblisi, another two tiles southeast of Kiev (two bad coastal squares, but a free aqueduct, and a good RCP spot), and a third two south of Tblisi.
Oil Springs and Caughnawaga are losing much of the GA bonus by working zero-shield tiles.
Space and/or Ainwood, can you play now? KB, if they indicate they can't, you're up.
I can play, I fixed my computer in the weekend. 
I'll post a 'got it' when I get home.
I'll post a 'got it' when I get home.
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Yes Oil Springs and Caughnawaga were a problem. Ideally one would improve all the core cities prior to entering a GA such that they could make 10 or 15 spt. Unfortunately I couldn't find a way of getting workers there and then improving the tiles until we were 10 turns in with the loss of some 20 worker movement points. Instead I decided to shorten the routes from our current core to Russia by roading hills. I'm not defending it, it's just that I was aware of the problem, but couldn't solve it.
It seems right to me that we should peel settlers from the core cities at size 6, to prevent food wastage. Also, I think that otherwise we should build only MW and a few cheap spears to garrison the front line. Other improvements should wait (I'm thinking Markets and libraries) until Germany is dealt with. I'm not sure whether aqueducts would be a good choice either in our present core since the palace will move.
As an aside... Japan are backward compared to the rest of the AI, but they are culturally strong. Later on we will need to find a way of killing them to prevent them getting to 50K cp. I'm afraid this will mean cavalry and canon against Samurai and this is my worst nightmare. We'll also need MT and Navigation of course. The point is that the sooner we do this the better. We may not be able to eliminate them, and so the sooner we stop their cultural growth the more likely it will be that we can reach 100K before they reach 50 obvously.
For this reason we will need to carefully judge when we can start to build libraries for the science race after the German conquest. For me this means building the FP in Moscow and rushing libraries in the FP Core. We need a ring at 3 and 5 around Moscow, and we need to have captured the Great library before the current temple builds complete in 25 turns.
It seems right to me that we should peel settlers from the core cities at size 6, to prevent food wastage. Also, I think that otherwise we should build only MW and a few cheap spears to garrison the front line. Other improvements should wait (I'm thinking Markets and libraries) until Germany is dealt with. I'm not sure whether aqueducts would be a good choice either in our present core since the palace will move.
As an aside... Japan are backward compared to the rest of the AI, but they are culturally strong. Later on we will need to find a way of killing them to prevent them getting to 50K cp. I'm afraid this will mean cavalry and canon against Samurai and this is my worst nightmare. We'll also need MT and Navigation of course. The point is that the sooner we do this the better. We may not be able to eliminate them, and so the sooner we stop their cultural growth the more likely it will be that we can reach 100K before they reach 50 obvously.
For this reason we will need to carefully judge when we can start to build libraries for the science race after the German conquest. For me this means building the FP in Moscow and rushing libraries in the FP Core. We need a ring at 3 and 5 around Moscow, and we need to have captured the Great library before the current temple builds complete in 25 turns.
Kaiser_Berger
Terran Emporer
Great work
Fully agree on whacking the Germans while we have the oppurtunity.
Fully agree on whacking the Germans while we have the oppurtunity.
Northern Pike
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mad-bax said:
Sure; I'm not arguing that you should have made a lot of terrain improvements to these minor towns before triggering our GA. I'm just making the much more limited point that both are working one-food, zero-shield coastal tiles when they could be working one-food, two-shield unimproved hill tiles, given that it's our GA.
Got it. Looked at it.
We still have 11 turns to go on a deal with Germany. Can we afford to wait that long? Can we afford to break that deal?
I like the plan of taking Yakutsk before taking peace, this'll take a few turns.
As for Germany, we'll need to tackle that stack before they return home, we stand the best chance if they're in the field. We'll need to try to keep our Mounties out of reach all the time.
We still have 11 turns to go on a deal with Germany. Can we afford to wait that long? Can we afford to break that deal?
I like the plan of taking Yakutsk before taking peace, this'll take a few turns.
As for Germany, we'll need to tackle that stack before they return home, we stand the best chance if they're in the field. We'll need to try to keep our Mounties out of reach all the time.
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Re moving FP to Moscow - don't need to get too hung-up on exact RCP distances, due to the rank corruption bug - just make sure that the cities around the FP are closer to the FP than the cities around the palace are to the palace.
If we only get one leader, lets use it for the FP - we can jump the palace.
If we only get one leader, lets use it for the FP - we can jump the palace.
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