Gay Marriage: What's the Huge Deal?

[warpus]

 

[caketastydelish]

Warpus, I would have actually voted for Obama if that was real. (I didn't vote at all)

 

[Tee Kay]

edit: Ah, ok. Just because he's standing with them doesn't necessarily mean he agrees with them. Otherwise we have compelling evidence that Obama is racist against whites based on this pic:

The other guy is whiter than Obama.

 

[caketastydelish]

Besides the point, he's said many racist things against whites.

edit: Seriously, do you even know who he is?

 

[GhostWriter16]

If that's actually true that's hilarious and ironic. Not only did Hitler have Jewish heritage, but he was an in the closet homosexual as well.

And yeah ghostwriter, no offense (seriously) but I don't see why you made this thread if you aren't going to listen to what people have to say.

I did. I've considered the arguments. I'm still thinking through the issue. But I haven't bought it yet.

What? Did you think since I made a thread I was by default going to change my view?

Picture of Ron Paul with the founders of Stormfront.

Ron Paul takes pictures with all sorts of people. That doesn't mean he agrees with them at all.

And the fact that you said "Hitler lives in the heart of Ron Paul" makes you a despicable person. Seriously, that is more horrifying than probably anything else you've said or done.

Don't agree with his views? Fine. A lot of people don't. His views are fairly non-mainstream at the moment. His support base is around 10%. That means that about 90% of the country significantly disagrees with him. I'm a huge Ron Paul fan, and even I don't take every word he says as gospel. I disagree wth him sometimes. I'd even say I disagree with probably about 10% of his views.

But do not call one of the few decent people in politics, who actually says things the way they are and actually refuses to lie to his supporters even though he knows he will never get elected to anything higher than a House seat because of it, "Hitler living on." Just don't. Its insulting, and it says more about you than it does about him.

Address policies, fine. I respect disagreement with his policies. But don't slander without any rational basis whatsoever.

Or, if you are going to do so, at least read what a Jewish Libertarian has to say about it first.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Also, Stormfront itself thinks that Ron Paul "Doesn't get the racial issues", and they don't think he wrote those letters either, even though they certainly wish he had.

 

[Crezth]

Also, Stormfront itself thinks that Ron Paul "Doesn't get the racial issues", and they don't think he wrote those letters either, even though they certainly wish he had.

There are a multitude of arguments why Ron Paul might not be racist, but "because a bunch of awful internet racist Hitlerites said so" is not one of them.

 

[civ_king]

Wouldn't that imply that every individual cell is a distinct person? The body, remember, is not a single entity, but a complex of individual cells. If every distinct cell is a distinct person, then, grazing your knee constitutes the obliteration of thousand of innocent lives. If their interdependence means that they rather constitute a single being, then the foetus, wholly dependent on the host, constitutes a part of the host's being and not a distinct being.

huh?

Maybe I'm mistaken because of Monty Python, but isn't this official Catholic doctrine? Every sperm is sacred and all that?

Sperm isn't sacred.
Life begins at conception is Catholic doctrine.

Oooh, I know that one! They told us in Economy, Legislation and Enterprise class that a human being is legally a person 24h after his birth and only then.

Nice that they give us enough time to decide whether to keep it or kill it.

Maybe because it's stupid to try to pin down when exactly a bunch of human cells changes into a person.
Well, maybe not stupid, as it has it's uses, but I think that babies over 5 months old are conscious already and should thus not be killed - with the exception of the mother's life being in danger, in which case we've got the choice between a fully aware human being and a semi-developed, ignorant human being to save. I'd know which one to choose.

Adult pigs are more sentient than 5 month old babies, I guess that means no more bacon.

I was referring to Ernst Röhm, the openly-gay leader of the SA, who was assassinated during the Night of Long Knives. Hitler, as far as we can tell, was as straight as the next incestuous pervert.

Ernst Röhm was clearly killed because Hitler was jealous of his fabulousness although my inner queen says that Nazi uniforms were kind hot.

The other guy is whiter than Obama.

The other guy hated crackers and I aint talking about saltines

 

[JohannaK]

Don't agree with his views? Fine. A lot of people don't. His views are fairly non-mainstream at the moment.

Hipsters 4 Paul.

 

[Arakhor]

Life begins at conception is Catholic doctrine.

Which is entirely laudable, except when making laws in an explicitly secular country.

 

[Borachio]

Ah yes, but you see, I suspect a bit of post hoc rationalization on this whole life doesn't begin at conception.

To be blunt, I think people started out with the need for abortion, and have only since come up with the idea that a "life" doesn't begin at conception, but is somehow just an amorphous bunch of cells.

 

[Arakhor]

You know, if you need an excuse for abortion, there are so many ways to go about it then inventing dubious reasons to support it. That's generally the job of religious apologists.

 

[Leoreth]

The fact that most people who consider abortion actually think that murder is wrong leads me to the belief that most people don't consider a fetus a person.

 

[JohannaK]

We discussed that a couple pages ago, didn't we? Because yes, the question is whether a fetus is a person. I'll just stick to the legal definition of person for this debate.

 

[Borachio]

Fine. But it's hard to see how a person magically comes into being 24 hours after birth. Where previously there was none.

 

[JohannaK]

This is so that there is no need to go through a series of legal procedures if a child dies upon birth that children who live must undergo. That is basically registering in the census and the like.

 

[Leoreth]

It's obviously a continuous process, and therefore any point of time where one becomes a person is arbitrarily chosen. This is why I think banning late term abortions except in extreme circumstances (i.e. health risks) is a good idea.

 

[Arakhor]

And Civking seems to have derailed the thread again. I thought we'd established that thread derailing is evil and immoral!

 

[Borachio]

This is so that there is no need to go through a series of legal procedures if a child dies upon birth that children who live must undergo. That is basically registering in the census and the like.

And presumably no coroners report or potential homicide investigation.

I can quite see the practicalities.

But because the fetus is not legally a person doesn't mean that abortion is acceptable.

I can see that legally abortion cannot be murder, because of the legal definition of a person and murder.

It is though killing... someone. IMO.

 

[holy king]

Link to video.