General Politics Three: But what is left/right?

[Kyriakos]

Poor Belgium! If it's any consolation to you, if I ever invaded Belgium it would be for the chocolate.

Incidentally, Belgium happens to be one of only three European countries I've ever been to, though I was too young to have any memories.

I visited Belgium, with my father, back when I was 15.
Well, we only went to Brussels (it was a trip to Amsterdam-Brussels-Luxemburg). I remember the Atomium and that I bought some game for my Gameboy in one of the department stores. Don't recall if we went to the area with the characteristically shaped Eu building (with the three sides) or if I just remember that from school books.

 

[Lexicus]

Is it?

You're the one who says Trump is right that Europe needs to "pay for it" so presumably it has some value that is being "paid for"?

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I visited Belgium, with my father, back when I was 15.
Well, we only went to Brussels (it was a trip to Amsterdam-Brussels-Luxemburg). I remember the Atomium and that I bought some game for my Gameboy in one of the department stores. Don't recall if we went to the area with the characteristically shaped Eu building (with the three sides) or if I just remember that from school books.

I was just about to mention that my only memory is of the Atomium too, but it's all so hazy I can't recall if it it's of the actual Atomium or a similar structure at home

 

[Core Imposter]

Military alliances such as NATO are one of the causes of the various world wars. Indispensable I should say, at any price.

 

[Kyriakos]

Come to think of it, I was younger than 15. Maybe 14 or 13. At 15 it was a trip to Copenhagen-Oslo-Stockholm-Helsinki. I doubt I'd be buying stuff for Gameboy by that age anyway.

 

[Farm Boy]

You're the one who says Trump is right that Europe needs to "pay for it" so presumably it has some value that is being "paid for"?

It was a question. You asked it too. A conservative man might say that behavior would indicate the answer. That sometimes(no implication of you here(there are even rats for non invited non dues payers)) seems a blind spot with liberal men.

 

[Senethro]

It was a question. You asked it too. A conservative man might say that behavior would indicate the answer. That sometimes(no implication of you here(there are even rats for non invited non dues payers)) seems a blind spot with liberal men.

Cryptic!

 

[Farm Boy]

whatever

 

[Lexicus]

I mean I get the argument by analogy with labor unions (very clever, but not really accurate given that NATO countries don't pool their resources for defense), but I have no real idea of what you're trying to say. I asked Snowygerry to explain their perspectice on the value of NATO since they said the alliance is valuable.

 

[Farm Boy]

They train together and make the parts interchangeable. They have a command structure. They promise to bleed together. Much as that promise may be shown false by failing short of that price. Not sure what you think a pool would look like.

 

[Kyriakos]

I'd say that Nato primarily exists to sell weapons, and not just to its members (but those deals tend to be the biggest).
The demand for weapons, naturally, rises when there is a sense of imminent risk.

 

[Lexicus]

They train together and make the parts interchangeable. They have a command structure. They promise to bleed together. Much as that promise may be shown false by failing short of that price. Not sure what you think a pool would look like.

A NATO army is what a pool would look like.

 

[Farm Boy]

Imperial legion or bust, then?

 

[Core Imposter]

It's not hard to understand. Security requires the best arms and the 2% includes buying US arms which subsidizes the production of those arms and the only reason Putin invaded Ukraine is because he has the Zircon ergo the failure of NATO countries to spend put the development of US arms behind the Russians. Ergo, let them eat cake. They did it to themselves.

Like it or not there is a logic to it.

Trump of course isn't going to leave NATO he is preparing the market for the next generation of US made arms. That's all this is.

By his third or fourth term nobody will mess with NATO. We'll be buff.

 

[Lexicus]

Imperial legion or bust, then?

I don't know what this means. I'm generally of the view that NATO is in fact an instrument of US hegemony and that those who think it is a "defensive alliance" are too credulous.

 

[Farm Boy]

Then it shouldn't trouble you much if the US figures the non defensive alliance that is only for arms sales collapses.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'd say it's pretty much the global way by now.
Re Nato funding, if you haven't noticed there are expensive wars with nato providing endless ammunition/support, so pay up or shut up.

That's up to individual NATO states to contribute or not.

Few are spending anywhere close to 2% though.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Someone should just propose renaming NATO as the Treaty Resolving United Military Participation.

Something makes me think that would get Trump right on board with it.

 

[Lexicus]

Then it shouldn't trouble you much if the US figures the non defensive alliance that is only for arms sales collapses.

I wasn't the one who said it's all for arms sales.

 

[Farm Boy]

If you are concerned about hegemony, it's been over for a while.

But as far as defensive alliances go, counting on people who won't send the cheques agreed to, to send sons? Heheheh.