[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Zardnaar]

Well there's also the economic situation, which perpetually worsens. You're right that there's reason to be hopeful, but it's also true that other avenues of change are distinguishing themselves more and more. Taking to the streets is just the first part of that.

Last time this happened things got better from say 32-73 or so.

It's a pendulum of sorts.

 

[Zardnaar]

in the US, you know that either a Democrat or a Republican will win, and especially in more local elections you do know the result before you vote. those metrics are also worthless, Bhutan often manages to be the ''happiest country in the world'' while being a totalitarian dictatorship, there's no real way to measure ''democracy'' and the perception of corruption =/= actual corruption

You pretty much always going to get an entrenched political class.

Doesn't matter if it's a flawed democracy, progressive democracy, communist, fascist,monarchy etc.

It's how much say the average person gets and/or the gap between the have notd and haves.

We're around 25-40 years ahead of the USA in race relations type stuff.

People protest here but it's been 70 years since we've had anything resembling a riot, at least large scale.

Locally things are more conservative than nationally because voter turnout is 10% vs 75%. We've had statues get paintbombed etc but no one's pulling them down because the local authorities will often do it if you ask.

I guess they'll find replacements so you don't have a public eyesore. If they've been up for decades a few more months or a year or 2 won't matter.

 

[The Civs 6]

I had no idea that BLM was a Marxist organization (as the leaders/founders confess in this video). I totally support racial justice and I hate racism, but sorry, I can't support an organization that is allied with that ideology. I just hope the people out there open their eyes and realize that when they support BLM and the protests, they are actually serving a darker master...

 

[Estebonrober]

I had no idea that BLM was a Marxist organization (as the leaders/founders confess in this video). I totally support racial justice and I hate racism, but sorry, I can't support an organization that is allied with that ideology. I just hope the people out there open their eyes and realize that when they support BLM and the protests, they are actually serving a darker master...

hahahahaha. . . .hahahahahaha

 

[The Civs 6]

hahahahaha. . . .hahahahahaha

Laugh all you want I don't want gulags, great leaps forward, and state mandated atheism in my USA. And the majority of Americans don't want those things either.

 

[Berzerker]

you don't have the right to occupy indigenous land

they'd kick CHAZ off their land too

 

[El_Machinae]

I will admit, that's a heck of a find. Maybe somebody else will unpack it, cuz it's bedtime

 

[Berzerker]

hell, the Indians would have killed off the residents of CHAZ

 

[Crezth]

Laugh all you want I don't want gulags, great leaps forward, and state mandated atheism in my USA. And the majority of Americans don't want those things either.

Well they already have gulags, reckless economic planning without regard for lives, and money changers in the megachurches.

 

[Commodore]

Oh, I see where you're going here.

I am going to outright say that neither insurgency you quote looks the least bit 'successful', in that both places are pretty crappy places to live. There are intersecting goals (a) to make the place better and (b) to throw off an oppressor. Succeeding at (b) while failing at (a) isn't brag-worthy. No one involved in the BLM movement wants the place to become more like Afghanistan.

Well making their respective nations better isn't necessarily the goal of those insurgencies. The Taliban's goal is just to return to power in Afghanistan, which they are very much set up to do. When I was in Iraq, the situation was a bit more complicated. There were a bunch of different insurgent organizations with different goals. Some were more successful in achieving those goals than others. JAM was probably the most successful once Operation Iraqi Freedom finally came to an end.

 

[Bugfatty300]

I had no idea that BLM was a Marxist organization

Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement also promoted socialism.

the majority of Americans don't want those things either

For the moment. The 2nd place candidate for the Democratic primaries was a socialist.

when they support BLM and the protests, they are actually serving a darker master...

Correct observation. BLM does tend to have more melanin than the current masters.

 

[red_elk]

This anti-Marxist guy took Hrothbern avatar, which is confusing.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I had no idea that BLM was a Marxist organization (as the leaders/founders confess in this video). I totally support racial justice and I hate racism, but sorry, I can't support an organization that is allied with that ideology. I just hope the people out there open their eyes and realize that when they support BLM and the protests, they are actually serving a darker master...

Care to identify said "darker master(s)"?

 

[Traitorfish]

I had no idea that BLM was a Marxist organization (as the leaders/founders confess in this video). I totally support racial justice and I hate racism, but sorry, I can't support an organization that is allied with that ideology. I just hope the people out there open their eyes and realize that when they support BLM and the protests, they are actually serving a darker master...

Speaking as a Marxist, the Black Lives Matter organisation is not a Marxist organisation. It's not even a socialist organisation. It's a civil rights organisation whose overriding framework and goals are squarely within the bounds of liberal political assumptions. The claim made by representatives of the organisation is, charitably, a reflection of their own naivety, their misplaced assumption that because conservatives call them "Marxists" for opposing the worst excesses of American racism, they must therefore be Marxists; more cynically, it's a hollow ploy to win credibility as upstarts and radicals by associating themselves with a political tradition which is still considered by many Americans to be beyond the pale of acceptability.

Just saying "I'm a Marxist" does not make you a Marxist, simply because the person hearing the statement regards this as some sort of shameful confession. I could tell an Amish person that I'm a billionaire playboy rock star, but just because the Amish person would regard this as a bad thing does not imply that my assertion of identity is in any straightforward, material, strictly empirical sense, y'know, true.

 

[El_Machinae]

But what is it about the BLM movement makes them think that her Marxism matters?

 

[Joij21]

If a fascist came out and publicly admitted they were a fascist no one would ever doubt it. So if black lives matter admits that they are Marxist then you better believe it. Of course you could always doubt their seriousness and commitment to the ideology. However the benefit of the doubt would not be given as in the other case.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Usually, when a fascist says that he's a fascist, they accompany it by actions that, well, demonstrate that.

Besides. Let us look at the facts. Fundamentally, at least to me, a Marxist has to work towards the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat as a transition towards communism, to be brief. Is BLM doing this? No, not really! They may augment their analysis with the Marxist view, but that only gets us to academic Marxism, which, one should not fear. In short, while BLM may have Marxists within it, and it is certainly worthy for any Marxist to support, it is not the Communist Party of the U.S.A.

 

[Joij21]

Usually, when a fascist says that he's a fascist, they accompany it by actions that, well, demonstrate that.

Besides. Let us look at the facts. Fundamentally, at least to me, a Marxist has to work towards the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat as a transition towards communism, to be brief. Is BLM doing this? No, not really! They may augment their analysis with the Marxist view, but that only gets us to academic Marxism, which, one should not fear. In short, while BLM may have Marxists within it, and it is certainly worthy for any Marxist to support, it is not the Communist Party of the U.S.A.

Being an academic Marxist is still being a Marxist. Hence why we would never use the term academic fascist if some professor came out sympathizing with Hitler.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Usually, when a fascist says that he's a fascist, they accompany it by actions that, well, demonstrate that.

Besides. Let us look at the facts. Fundamentally, at least to me, a Marxist has to work towards the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat as a transition towards communism, to be brief. Is BLM doing this? No, not really! They may augment their analysis with the Marxist view, but that only gets us to academic Marxism, which, one should not fear. In short, while BLM may have Marxists within it, and it is certainly worthy for any Marxist to support, it is not the Communist Party of the U.S.A.

As a non-Marxist I'd say that Tolina is right.
Some Marxists would argue against participation in movements like BLM as distractions from the class struggle.

 

[El_Machinae]

There are no redeeming features to fascism. "Marxism" is one of those things like "Capitalist" where there's a foundation of useful stuff that inevitably gets bungled. There's no doubt that Marxism should be something people keep an eye on, but fascism will be a completely different ballgame.